Death spiral of the Tory Party

The problem of the Tories was created by Johnson who appointed Brexiteers to the Cabinet instead of competent people and threw out some very intelligent MPs. Corbyn similarly messed up the Labour front bench. Don't waste time on the Lib Dems who ratted on their voters by going into coalition. All the rest including the Pixie's Party are also rans. It will take decades to create a better quality political class.

I haven't used the word Callistemon. The person who has used it the most on this thread is you (I checked).

It was also used in answer to comment about the regime you would like when you said I really don't know who are the best people to deliver that., but not by me and it referred to "the best people to deliver that" not you.

I have not said it.

And this is still a pointless conversation.

MerylStreep

Callistemon
I’m sure your imagining things ?

It gets worse, MerylStreep

It would be laughable if it wasn't so vile and untrue.
Truly sickening that someone who wants safer streets and better sentencing laws for violent criminals is called an extremist.

Are the the women protesting to reclaim the streets considered extremists because they want to reclaim the streets and to feel safe?

I despair.

DaisyAnne

There is no point in this Callistemon.

Oh, there is. The point is you made an offensive post and accused me - on n open forum - of something of which I am not guilty.

I said:
We can't expect perfection (none of us are) but if only we could have a party of Decency, Morals and Courage picked from all the best politicians regardless of political bias

And you accuse me of fascism!

I think you owe me an apology.

DaisyAnne

Callistemon21

Your posts are offensive.

Then don't back extreme policies and those who would carry them out. Being personal about those who disagree with your politics is no argument for them.

Oh, for goodness sake!!

I take it you do not want longer sentences for rapists and murderers then?
You're happy for women and children to be fearful to walk the streets?

I'm with the women who want to Reclaim the Streets, sorry if you disagree.

But I find it terrifying that you are not.

(And I voted for Drakeford fyi.)

There is no point in this Callistemon.

Callistemon21

Your posts are offensive.

Then don't back extreme policies and those who would carry them out. Being personal about those who disagree with your politics is no argument for them.

Do not attempt to tell me what I fear or that I listen to government propaganda.

I do, however, know the difference between right and wrong in the CJS.

Your posts are offensive.

What are you on about?

You fear what you read of the governments crisis propoganda. I fear what you suggest as an answer to your fears.

I see no difference.

DaisyAnne
Et tu DaisyAnne?

I suggest you take a long hard look at what you are advocating.

Murderers who are released halfway through their sentences released to murder again
Women unable to walk the streets in safety
Children stabbed as they go to meet friends because they look wrong'

At least in the 1930s, we stood against such thinking
How dare you.
You know nothing about my life, my parents' lives or my FIL's death.

Just childish rhetoric learnt from a book from another who knows absolutely nothing about about what horrors men and women can inflict on each other.
You know nothing about it.

Nightsky2

varian

In spite of the overwhelming evidence of incompetence and corruption, the Tory party will not die as long as people still read The Daily Mail, The Express, The Telegraph and The Sun and vote as instructed.

We can all see the evidence on Gransnet.

Varian….The Telegraph and the Sun…now that is offensive. I expect someone as clever as you only read the Guardian. I’ve flicked through it on the paper stand a couple of times but have never been tempted to buy it.

Does it have good cartoons like the Matt cartoons in the Telegraph.

The point is that, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Daily Mail and The Daily Express are Al supporters if the Tory party as are most of their loyal readers.

At the time of the fraudulent referendum of 2016 newspaper readership was found to be the strongest determinant of voting patterns.

No, I am not a regular reader of The Guardian, although J sometimes look at Guardian online and MailOnline.

I prefer to get mu news from a variety of sources.

I recommend that you do the same.

scared scarce

Casdon

Well time will tell I guess, but I really don’t believe it has anywhere near the profile of other current day issues for younger people either. They are far more interested in Ukraine, the cost of living, the environment and probity in government - for whatever reasons Labour may fail at the next election it isn’t going to be trans issues, it really isn’t, whatever the loudest voices on Mumsnet and Gransnet say.

I can only agree Casdon. By the time of the next election people will be starving and freezing to death if this government continues on the path they have set themselves. It will be almost impossible to get hospital care and food will be both more scared and more expensive.

I have a feeling that will influence people a great deal more than trans issues.

Callistemon21

^It is not fascist to want the streets to be safe for people of all ages, to be safe in our own homes, to be protected from never ending scammers and for the criminals to be incarcerated for an appropriate amount of time, life sentence should mean just that life^ …

No, it's not and it is extremely strange not to want a better society where women and children can walk the streets without fear.

GrannyGravy it's is just the tactics used by those who disagree that we need women, young men, children to be safer because they've never experienced anything like it in their cushioned lives; the most violent aspects of some crimes are never reported in the press.

But the sort of "society" you suggest does not keep people safe. Safety comes from the agreement of society. It is never perfect; we don't have perfect people.

Have you not learned anything from the past? Have you learned nothing about what happens to those who wish for tougher sentencing, stop and search, ID cards and anything else that they believe will limit the few wicked people. It ends up limiting everyone but the wicked. They are happy to take over these systems. It does hurt and even kill many who have done nothing wrong. I imagine you believe you could never be on the wrong side of the a society you want. Many have thought that in the past and found they were totally wrong.

I despair. Our country watched the growth of this in the 1930s. Some seem to have learned nothing from the past. At least in the 1930s, we stood against such thinking.

varian

In spite of the overwhelming evidence of incompetence and corruption, the Tory party will not die as long as people still read The Daily Mail, The Express, The Telegraph and The Sun and vote as instructed.

We can all see the evidence on Gransnet.

Varian….The Telegraph and the Sun…now that is offensive. I expect someone as clever as you only read the Guardian. I’ve flicked through it on the paper stand a couple of times but have never been tempted to buy it.

Does it have good cartoons like the Matt cartoons in the Telegraph.

Dinahmo stop and search 100 metres from my front door this week, guns. knives and drugs found.

It’s a tool in the police force box that is needed

Shropshirelass

Rishi Sunak has done a brilliant job as far as I am concerned. No-one else would have done as much as he has to steer us through a difficult pandemic. His wife’s family wealth etc has no bearing on things whatsoever. Personally I am fed up with reporters having a go and trying to create difficult situations. Rishi and his wife have done nothing wrong. The cost of living has risen worldwide and is affecting everyone.

Sunak done a brilliant job? Nonsense. The cost of living is rising throughout the world but the huge increase in energy prices is and will create much larger problems than elsewhere. France put its energy prices up by 4% and the French are complaining. The UK should be demonstrating against the cuts in the UK

LauraNorderr So many things to disagree with but just 2 is all I have time for.

Firstly - Sunak is not an economist. He was an hedge fund manager - a very big difference

Secondly - stop and search. You may not remember the riots in Brixton and elsewhere during the early 80s, I do - Ilive through them in Brixton. Lord Scarman's report after the riots laid some of the blame squarely at stop and search.
The police then were no better than they are now, especially in London. Too many bad apples.

BlueBelle

Keep trying annie ?
Two wrongs never make a right
There is no perfect government
There will never be a government that suits everybody …but …some are worse than others and this is the vilest, most corrupt crew I have ever come across in my lifetime
I don’t want far right or far left I want some values that don’t divid the nation I want some Labour middle values and others want conservative middle values that could meet at least sometimes
This country is horrible now it s divided over politics it’s divided over Europe it’s full of angst and pessimism

I need integrity and understanding I don’t need very rich men and woman bending the rules to make themselves richer, and laughing up their sleeves while they work out how to get away with it

Totally agree with you there.

You missed Laura’s penultimate sentence maddyone.

They're all important and are human crises but DH and I agreed earlier that all this relates to humans, but that the one thing most important now is the survival of the planet.

But Putin is.

I think we’re all mostly interested in Ukraine at the moment, but the ability to be safe on our streets is pretty important for me too, and the trans issue as I don’t want to find myself in hospital at any point and be in the next bed to a person with a penis. He should be in a different ward in my humble opinion.

My own disclaimer: I am not a fascist.