Death spiral of the Tory Party

Callistemon21

volver

That's not what I said and you know that very well Call.

You said that people who don't agree with these draconian (and ineffective) measures must be a child torturer. That's the tactics fascists use to get everyone to agree with them and turn against the other.

I still think its beneath you. I would have given you more credit. Maybe not any more.

That is a lie and you know it.

Digging deeper than ever today.

Surely you are more intelligent than to misread posts.

I said those who disagreed must be happy with lenient sentences.

Try reading it again.

If you're are against this, you must be happy that someone who tortures and murders their child or laughs while a partner does so, or abducts, rapes and murders a woman from the streets should only get a relatively lenient sentence, halved for "good behaviour" then?

Its almost worth reporting.

If I was that way inclined.

volver

That's not what I said and you know that very well Call.

You said that people who don't agree with these draconian (and ineffective) measures must be a child torturer. That's the tactics fascists use to get everyone to agree with them and turn against the other.

I still think its beneath you. I would have given you more credit. Maybe not any more.

That is a lie and you know it.

Digging deeper than ever today.

It is not fascist to want the streets to be safe for people of all ages, to be safe in our own homes, to be protected from never ending scammers and for the criminals to be incarcerated for an appropriate amount of time, life sentence should mean just that life …

No, it's not and it is extremely strange not to want a better society where women and children can walk the streets without fear.

GrannyGravy it's is just the tactics used by those who disagree that we need women, young men, children to be safer because they've never experienced anything like it in their cushioned lives; the most violent aspects of some crimes are never reported in the press.

I’ll still vote Tory because they’re the only party talking any sense over the trans issues.

I'm not having this conversation.

I'm gobsmacked.

That's not what I said and you know that very well Call.

You said that people who don't agree with these draconian (and ineffective) measures must be a child torturer. That's the tactics fascists use to get everyone to agree with them and turn against the other.

I still think its beneath you. I would have given you more credit. Maybe not any more.

volver

No, that won't do Callistemon.

It's the tactics of the fascist to say that you have to have these draconian measures or you must like killing children.

Do not pretend that wanting a free society is equivalent to being a child torturer. It's beneath you.

So what is your solution to the violence on the streets volver ?

It is not fascist to want the streets to be safe for people of all ages, to be safe in our own homes, to be protected from never ending scammers and for the criminals to be incarcerated for an appropriate amount of time, life sentence should mean just that life…

volver

No, that won't do Callistemon.

It's the tactics of the fascist to say that you have to have these draconian measures or you must like killing children.

Do not pretend that wanting a free society is equivalent to being a child torturer. It's beneath you.

And I did ot say that at all did I?

But par for the course from you.

volver

No, that won't do Callistemon.

It's the tactics of the fascist to say that you have to have these draconian measures or you must like killing children.

Do not pretend that wanting a free society is equivalent to being a child torturer. It's beneath you.

By golly, can't get much lower than someone accusing someone else of fascism because they think sentencing is, in many cases, too lenient for heinous crimes.

Shropshirelass

Rishi Sunak has done a brilliant job as far as I am concerned. No-one else would have done as much as he has to steer us through a difficult pandemic. His wife’s family wealth etc has no bearing on things whatsoever. Personally I am fed up with reporters having a go and trying to create difficult situations. Rishi and his wife have done nothing wrong. The cost of living has risen worldwide and is affecting everyone.

Is that you Mr Sunak? How's the move going?

volver

LauraNorderr

Sadly the echo chamber rolls on. I’m off out in to the sunshine now, while the rest think up some more bile to put down those who with differing opinions.
? Urms

Bile? Examples?

Some say bile, some say reality.

No, that won't do Callistemon.

It's the tactics of the fascist to say that you have to have these draconian measures or you must like killing children.

Do not pretend that wanting a free society is equivalent to being a child torturer. It's beneath you.

LauraNorderr

Yes Urms, Orlin and about 17 million others, not too many on gransnet though.

I wouldn't be too sure about that, most people have had their eyes opened to the reality of Brexit, and the problems of being represented by a liar. Most, but sadly, not all voters have realised that the lies began on the side of a bus and haven't stopped since.

Oh, surprise! The Far Left are far from liberal.
They meet round the back of the circle don't they they?

We're asked so often for ID for various reasons and not everyone has a passport, a driving licence. I see no problem at all in ID cards.

Why is justice, crime prevention, considered to be a Fascist idea?
If you're are against this, you must be happy that someone who tortures and murders their child or laughs while a partner does so, or abducts, rapes and murders a woman from the streets should only get a relatively lenient sentence, halved for "good behaviour" then?

Sorry, but I'm not. And I am nowhere near being Fascist just as I would not accuse either of you of being Communist.

Our streets aren't safe for young people; teenagers being stabbed, women murdered.
It sickens me and others.

volver

LauraNorderr

IMHO many people in the U.K. were more and more fearful of escalating crime, terrorism, ever increasing rules coming from the EU, many seeming contrary to our traditions and beliefs. Many of our woes were perceived to come from uncontrolled immigration.
This government promised to control immigration, be tougher on crime and spend big on infrastructure.
The pandemic has largely thwarted the big spend but it is on hold rather than cancelled. Priti Patel is challenged at every step in trying to tighten up on crime and/or immigration by civil servants who lean a different way. The crisis in Ukraine has brought the fourth estate out en masse in criticism of delay. The delay is sad but inevitable if we are to make our borders secure. We want our grandchildren to attend a pop concert and be safe but we also want to help refugees so we must choose. I choose delay while those refugees are in a safe country and warm and heartfelt welcome once cleared.
I want tougher sentencing, I want stop and search, I’d be happy with ID cards, an open society without secrecy where we can walk our streets in safety.
I do want a more equal society created by better education, encouragement of aspiration and greater opportunity and I do believe that is what Boris Johnson wants too. I’m happy to give him a bit longer post pandemic to prove it.
I feel he has been statesman like over Ukraine which is far more important than his shambolic private life which is none of my business.
Rishi Sunak has a good grasp of economics and seems very capable in his role. His private life is just that.
I believe the government will step in when the rising cost of heating our homes tip some over the edge but also believe we could all do much to help by, those who can, turning down the thermostat and wearing an extra layer so that demand is lower, which will bring down the cost for the more needy. Society has to play its part. Rising gas and oil prices is a crisis throughout the world, we must accept and prioritise nuclear power and alternative energy. No more NIMBYism.
Times are changing and I’d like to see this less disciplined, more adventurous Tory party given a chance. If I’m wrong I’ll vote differently next time.
I now await the onslaught without ducking, but those are my thoughts and beliefs.

And that, dear fellow GNers, is why the Tories keep getting in.

Straight from the Katie Hopkins/Daily Mail/Daily Express songbook. I can't find anything to say really, as I find this post so, so depressing. It is so depressing that I can't even get angry.

volver

^I want tougher sentencing, I want stop and search, I’d be happy with ID cards^

I really don't know who are the best people to deliver that.

That would be the far right fascists.

Yes

I want tougher sentencing, I want stop and search, I’d be happy with ID cards

I really don't know who are the best people to deliver that.

That would be the far right fascists.

* More than anything we know the people with the lowest incomes, including pensioners, will find it hardest to cope. Costs are rising by 10% and benefits by 3%. Sunak seems unaware of just what it means to people. So forgive me if I have got past the time of sticking pictures on my walls and forming a fan club for those who don't deserve it.*

I don’t think for one minute he is unaware - he just doesn’t care. There was a proposal that because of the massive hike in energy bills, that for the first time people on disability benefits such as PIP and income related ESA should be included in the warm home discount scheme. Sunak dismissed it out of hand as unaffordable. Funny, the press never picked up on it, I would have thought the fact that our government doesn’t give a toss about vulnerable people would have been worth a headline or two. They’re quick enough to splash the odd incidence of disability benefit fraud around as though it happens every day.

A lot seem to be voting, according to various media, over the last few weeks, in the local elections, in May, on national issues.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

I want tougher sentencing, I want stop and search, I’d be happy with ID cards, an open society without secrecy where we can walk our streets in safety.
I do want a more equal society created by better education, encouragement of aspiration and greater opportunity

I can't argue with that LauraNorderr.

Many people want the same
I really don't know who are the best people to deliver that.
As soon as someone gains power, factions start work at undermining them and some politicians do set themselves up as easy targets by their actions.

We can't expect perfection (none of us are) but if only we could have a party of Decency, Morals and Courage picked from all the best politicians regardless of political bias.

MayBee70

I would have agreed if we were talking about the people in Corbyns shadow cabinet (eg Dianne Abott) but I have no problem with the professional intelligent eloquent people that Keir has surrounded himself with eg Wes Streeting, Peter Kyle..

I really wonder if it's worth talking to those who basically want boots and uniforms on the street.

Shropshirelass

Rishi Sunak has done a brilliant job as far as I am concerned. No-one else would have done as much as he has to steer us through a difficult pandemic. His wife’s family wealth etc has no bearing on things whatsoever. Personally I am fed up with reporters having a go and trying to create difficult situations. Rishi and his wife have done nothing wrong. The cost of living has risen worldwide and is affecting everyone.

Shropshirelass no one can "create" difficult situations. Either they exist or they don't. So are you are denying that Mrs Sunak has Non-Dom Status and there are no Green Cards?

I see Rishi Sunak says the cost of living crisis is a global issue so I assume this is your source? How do inflation rates compare in other countries? The only comparable countries doing worse than us are Iceland, Spain, The Netherlands and Belgium. NB: Belgium has all wages tied to CPI which means they will not lose their buying power. In the UK, wages have not been rising with inflation, meaning many people are becoming worse off. It could get worse as the energy price rises come in. It will also rise with the NI increases. Supply chain disruption is affecting all countries. Ours is exacerbated by the added effect from Brexit; this will also add to our cost of living.

More than anything we know the people with the lowest incomes, including pensioners, will find it hardest to cope. Costs are rising by 10% and benefits by 3%. Sunak seems unaware of just what it means to people. So forgive me if I have got past the time of sticking pictures on my walls and forming a fan club for those who don't deserve it.

Shropshirelass

Rishi Sunak has done a brilliant job as far as I am concerned. No-one else would have done as much as he has to steer us through a difficult pandemic. His wife’s family wealth etc has no bearing on things whatsoever. Personally I am fed up with reporters having a go and trying to create difficult situations. Rishi and his wife have done nothing wrong. The cost of living has risen worldwide and is affecting everyone.

The press didn't have to create a difficult situation for the Sunaks. They did that themselves by trying to have their cake and eat it. Homes in several countries, non dom status, not registered for tax in the country in which you live and benefit from the economy, a green card to work in the USA. How many times have Tory ministers been caught out showing utter contempt for the public with ‘one rule for us and one rule for them’. The Tories have steadily increased taxes on all of us until the pips squeak and there’s seemingly no end to it. They expect the public to be transparent and honest in their financial dealings, to pay their taxes honestly and to be upfront about every single financial aspect of our lives when claiming benefit of any kind. That’s fine, but the least we should expect is that they can live up to the same standards themselves.

I would have agreed if we were talking about the people in Corbyns shadow cabinet (eg Dianne Abott) but I have no problem with the professional intelligent eloquent people that Keir has surrounded himself with eg Wes Streeting, Peter Kyle..