Partygate

But he lied to parliament.

The ministerial code was broken.

I still think Maizie it depends on how you define a party.

And that must be the reason the police issued the fines mustn’t it volver. To my mind it’s splitting hairs, but as I said it’s all down to each person’s opinion.

susieconvento123

An 11 minute birthday tea and cake after working all day is not a issue for me .

It wasn't 11 minutes! The police, who took exhaustive evidence, said it was at least one hour.

And that wasn't the only party he was fined for.

However obviously in workplaces there were hugely more people gathered than 2.

They could have been in the same building without being in the same room. That's how it worked in my workplace at the start of the lockdowns.

It is irrelevant whether they were "parties" or not. They were not fined for "having parties". The problem was that they gathered together in the same room for purposes that were not required by work. Which was illegal for people from different households, whether they worked together or not.

volver
Thank you for your reply. However obviously in workplaces there were hugely more people gathered than 2. Number 10 is both a workplace and a private home. It would have been illegal for more than one household or 2 people to gather in a private house. I might be wrong but I think the rule of 2 was only for 2 single people anyway in recognition of the possible mental health repercussions after full lockdown. At that time there was also a bubble facility which we used to visit my elderly mother. With regard to the question it comes down to whether there was a party or not because people were allowed to be in workplaces obviously eg hospitals, shops, distribution centres, government cannot operate without workers being in their workplaces. So were there parties? To my mind, not really. We always had cakes on birthdays in my workplace, it’s normal to do that. Ten minutes does not a party make, but it all comes down to opinion.

I genuinely don’t get how anyone can vote conservative after the antics of this corrupt incompetent government

What really annoys me is the fact that I and my DH stuck to the rule of law rigidly ,even to the point that our DD and 3 grandchildren paid £1000 to rent a cottage near us for a few days as we hadn't seen each other for months and months because of lockdown. We only met outside because we were so worried the neighbours would inform the police. Now we hear that those who made and enforced the law broke the rules themselves. A case of " don't do what I do, do what I say"

Apparently he says it didn’t cross his mind it could have been a party. I’ve been to some rubbish parties in my time but really!!!!

Now Tory mp Michael Fabricant has said that teachers and nurses were partying so Sunak and Johnson aren't so bad!
What? Is he mad? He needs to resign for such an odious disgusting remark.
Is there no depth this government wont stoop to?

I think the whole cabinet is a disgrace, they lied to get into power (remember the bus anyone?) and have lied to stay there. To go to parliament and stand and say he knows of no party then gets fined and so do others is surely perjury

maddyone, please see my post today on this thread at 13:14, which explains why waht they did was illegal.

It is actually quite simple.

I voted Conservative after looking at the alternatives.

I'm concerned as to who is capable of taking our country forward.
I 've looked, ...& still yet to find a suitable candidate.

Has anyone yet told us why these parties were not reported at the time, by anyone?

It wasn’t illegal to have a party precisely because it was illegal to hold a gathering of more than one household or a certain number of people. Outside it was allowed for up to 30 people in July 2020 but I’m not sure about June when this happened. I suspect therefore that the garden gathering was not illegal but the indoor gatherings were subject to different rules, but I don’t know how these rules applied to workplaces which are clearly different from private homes.
That’s why I don’t care. The rules applied to private homes were different from the rules in workplaces. Outdoor areas were different again. I attended a gathering in early July of 13 people. Despite someone on Gransnet telling me it was illegal, it wasn’t. My son is a barrister and read all the rules (legal) and all the guidelines (not legally enforceable) before he had his barbecue in his extremely large garden where we had no need to be close to other people. He would never have broken any laws because of his profession.
I suspect that this is why the police took so long to make their enquiries. It is not simple, it is complex. How many people were allowed to gather in a workplace? Do you know? I suspect that there was no finite number because some workplaces are huge, including number 10. Everyone thinks they know the law but probably most of you don’t. That’s why I don’t care. I think the police had to make fines because of the public feeling about it all. They had to establish that ‘parties’ took place because gathering in a workplace cannot have been illegal but covered by guidance instead. So the police say they were parties, I have big doubts about that to be honest. It’s not as straightforward as it would appear.

HolySox

Far as I can read Boris won't get a criminal record for his FPN.

I was surprised he paid it ... if the birthday cake was a surprise in an otherwise official meeting it sounds like 'entrapment' and a good barrister could have defended him. Putting it in perspective, if a tealady had wheeled in the afternoon refreshments would the police have issued a fine?

No. Apparently it would only become a criminal act if he didn't pay the fine.

An 11 minute birthday tea and cake after working all day is not a issue for me .

She's just popped up on another post.

Here she is again.

Absolutely, Carrie should not have organised/allowed a birthday party for Boris. But compared to the good work that Boris, Rishi and co did getting us through the pandemic, why are we all so fixated on events from two years ago instead of getting the law changed and getting the police to act far more effectively on the actions of the Eco-group and Extinction Rebellion? Surely anyone attempting to cut off essential supplies should be jailed immediately.
I do not hear many people complaining about the Covid jabs or furlough payments or the government’s actions in supporting the Ukraine.

It is interesting that some of the same posters who were saying they would vote Tory as the party of law and order, who would like to see stiffer sentences, stop and search etc., are often the same posters who think those of us who are extremely concerned about the corruption of the rule of law by Johnson are getting it out of proportion.

GillT57

Brilliant but chilling post OakDryad.

Agreed.

Democracy is dying before our eyes when one of the key features of a democracy is respect for the rule of law.

A point for all the 'don't care' people. It wasn't just one party, there were sixteen at least that were referred to the police. Johnson and Sunak have been issued with SIX fixed penalty notices, which means that they were present at more than one party. They broke the law. The law that they themselves devised, passed in parliament and told us that everyone had to obey. NO-ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW

How can anyone be comfortable with this?

That's one fine and there are others still being investigated and of course the Sue Grey report is being issued soon. If Parliament doesn't vote him out when they return next week there is no hope.

I didn’t say the police were wrong to fine him but there must be more to the event than as described to receive a fine.
I don’t actually think he brought his Missus as you say I suspect she instigated the event but not really that strange as she lives there.

From the BBC website: Up to 30 people attended, sang Happy Birthday and were served cake, according to ITV News. As well as Downing Street staff, the interior designer Lulu Lytle - who was not a member of No 10 staff - was present.
No 10 said staff had "gathered briefly" to "wish the prime minister a happy birthday", adding that the PM had been there "for less than 10 minutes".

The rules
Gatherings of more than two people inside were banned by law. An exception was allowed if the gathering "was reasonably necessary" for work purposes.
.
.
As Mr Johnson is to be issued with an FPN for this gathering, it is clear the police have not deemed the gathering to have been necessary.

I don’t understand why people are trying to minimise the fact that the Prime Minister broke the law.

Dempie55

Oh, did he lie again? Surprise, surprise. He'll get away with it, because there is nobody else better to step into the job of PM. I'm pretty sure the visit to Kiev and the "family outing" to the Dinosaur park were both timed to lift his popularity ratings in advance of the fine announcement.

As for Sunak, he'll be off to the USA soon to oversee the asset stripping of our NHS prior to selling it all off to the Yanks.

Absolutely!

The police issued the fines. Johnson delayed saying he had received a fine until this week, meanwhile he made a hurried visit to Ukraine, hoping this would help take the focus away from his behaviour.

Nothing he does is for anything else other than himself.

^ How did we get here?^

I think we got here because of people like several posters on this thread who don't give a monkeys about competence, honesty, and obeying the law. Who can't even recognise that most of the 'crises' the country is facing are of Johnson's own making.

It's a sad place we're in..

Damian Collins Tweet.
The PM rightly apologised for lockdown parties that took place at 10 Downing Street. He should never have been put in this position & that's why reform was needed in the way Downing Street is run. The parties are over and it's time to get on with the job. He has my full support.

Apparently he should never have been put in this position. Ambushed by cake, clearly.

These people live in a parallel universe.