The law as it stands on sex, Part 2

The proportion in prison of trans sex offenders to natal men sex offenders will increase if (as seems likely) it is made simpler to claim trans status. Given the reasons for convicted offenders claiming that status, which Gender Identity Specialists and psychologists have listed, there could be a snowball of trans women in our gaols. If they are categorised in the data as women not men, they will falsely increase the ratio of women offenders.

Because we can stop rapes in prisons by men ahainst women, completely and easily. Why would you not do that for those wonen Look at the offending rate in those statistics.

If you haven't worked it out this means that over 80% of rapes are by a man known to the woman. It leaves 19% committed by someone they don't know, who may or may not be a transwoman, Even if the majority of the 19% involves a transwoman (and that is highly unlikely so lets say half) that means this is focussing on about at the most 10% of rapes. So even if you could lock up, castrate or otherwise deal with rapes by transwomen there would be little fall in the numbers of rapes. So forgive me if I think you are focussing on the wrong perpetrators and really doing very little to help women whilst simultaneously causing harm to transwomen.

No. For the billionth time, nobody is saying that the main threat is from transwomen. We are saying that as all rape is committed by males, and as transwomen are male, women are at risk from them too. Not in particular, not exclusively, not more so, but as well as from men not in dresses.

Doodledog

Has there been a time warp, or are you simply ignoring the posts about rapists and the difference between women transwomen and men in dresses?

I'm ignoring the Doodledog just like the gender critical are ignoring all the women raped or assaulted by men who they have a relationship with.
For the years ending March 2017 and March 2020 combined, victims who experienced sexual assault by rape or penetration since the age of 16 years were most likely to be victimised by their partner or ex-partner (44%). This was closely followed by someone who was known to them other than a partner or family member (37%), which includes friends (12%) and dates (10%)
But hey why bother about who is really doing the rape?Transwomen are just so much easier to blame.

Trisher it’s all to do with males. The fact that some of those males pretend to be something else doesn’t matter.

Or is trans the only inequality that matters?
In sport, trans is the only inequality caused by cheating. If you endorse cheating-that reflects the sort of person you are.
Yes, I could never have been a world class skier, because I couldn’t afford it, but I didn’t have to falsely misrepresent myself in order to win.

Men can rape-no one disputes that, but if you think it’s OK for someone to falsely misrepresent themself as a female in order to have additional opportunities to commit rape, then that again reflects what sort of person you are.

Really, every time you come up with another bit of whataboutery that gives males the opportunity to harm or upset or damage females, we get a bit more insight into what being an intersectional feminist means to you. It shows what you’re happy to allow males, whether in a dress, wearing a wig or presenting as a woman whatever you think that means,

Have people looked at the statistics that varian has posted. Percentage of prison population.

Has there been a time warp, or are you simply ignoring the posts about rapists and the difference between women transwomen and men in dresses?

Smileless2012

Your post @ 16.24 doesn't make sense trisher. You've said you "would never refer to an individual woman or a group of women who object to the term cis as yes" and @ 15.24 you posted you would "continue to use the term cis ......... well sorry you are just going to have to put up with it" so which is it?

Where has someone accused you of saying that you think rape is OK because you think trans women are women? The examples of men as trans women unfairly competing against women in sport are not stupid scenarios they have and are happening.

Honestly what is confusing about it (except to the simple minded) I won't call you cis if you object. I will use cis to refer to myself, others who don't mind and when posting about women in general.

If you don't understand that answering the assertion transwomen are women with a post about rape is inferring that this somehow condones rape well you just don't get inference.

It's the combined scenarios consistently being trotted out that are stupid. It's a bit like someone talking about the threat to dolphins in the Mediterranean and me telling you about my holiday on Crete. Nothing to do with the subject really.
Perverts and paedophiles exist they have as little to do with transpeople as they have to do with your husband or son.

Sport has been and always will be a problem trans problems are just a part of that. There is little equality in international sport, how can there be? Is anyone seriously saying that someone from a western privileged background competes on an equal basis with someone from a third world country? Or is trans the only inequality that matters?

Chewbacca

^So taking all of these things into account why are people focussing on transwomen and not on male rapists.^

Eh? Because trans women are males and when a male has raped, sexually assaulted or violated a woman, and then claims that he thinks he's a woman, it is still a man raping, sexually assaulting or violating a woman.

Exactly. And nobody is ‘targeting’ transwomen. We are just asking that they be treated along with the rest of their sex class and kept out of women’s spaces.

Seriously - I simply don’t believe that you don’t know this. It feels like we’ve all been saying it since the early Bronze Age.

Varian your figures er show sonething quite worrying if you look at percentage of prison population.

So taking all of these things into account why are people focussing on transwomen and not on male rapists.

Eh? Because trans women are males and when a male has raped, sexually assaulted or violated a woman, and then claims that he thinks he's a woman, it is still a man raping, sexually assaulting or violating a woman.

So taking all of these things into account why are people focussing on transwomen and not on male rapists. The evidence is as well that the majority of women are not raped by complete strangers but by men they have some sort of relationship with. So what seems apparent from this is that anyone really interested in the welfare of women should be concentrating on helping women develop their self esteem , establish relationships that are supportive and nurturing, providing them with the tools and the services to walk away from such relationships and build better futures.
Quite how targetting or condemning transwomen does this I have no idea.

it turns out that transgender people do not have to do the Sex Offenders Treatment Programme why ever not? What on earth is the reasoning behind such thinking. A sex offender is a sex offender no matter how they identify.

Elegran thanks for your links and extracts.

Even so it must be obvious to everyone that women must be far far more likely to be assaulted by men, than transwomen or men masquerading as women.

But trans women and men masquerading as women are men. It doesn't matter what you call them, or what they call themselves, they are biological male And therefore all penile assaults and rapes are perpetrated by men.

Come on trisher, you’ve read those posts from Chewbacca, Elegran, Doodledog, snownerryZ

I’d like your views on this too.
Should we smile and accept that we have little chance of winning in any competitive sport because the 6'2", 18 stone bloke with a six pack and a beard says he's "one of us"? Should we smile with gratitude when the rape counsellor sent to support us after that particularly vicious assault, is a bloke in a wig who first wants us to get our silly little heads to accept that he's "one of us"?
Or will you take this opportunity to say we should reframe our trauma?

"The British Psychological Society (BPS) also submitted written evidence to the Trans Equality Inquiry and it was once again highlighted why prisoners may wish to claim transgender status:

“psychologists working with forensic patients are aware of a number of cases where men convicted of sex crimes have falsely claimed to be transgender females for a number of reasons

– As a means of demonstrating reduced risk and so gaining parole;

– As a means of explaining their sex offending aside from sexual gratification (e.g. wanting to ‘examine’ young females);

– Or as a means of separating their sex offending self (male) from their future self (female).

In rare cases, it has been thought that the person is seeking better access to females and young children through presenting in an apparently female way.

Such strategies in no way affect risk and indeed may increase it. Some people falsely believe that taking oestrogen and blocking androgen in males will reduce risk of offending, however this is not necessarily the case.

Consequently the Society recommends that the Government give appropriate assistance to transgender people within the criminal justice system; while being extremely cautious of setting law and policy such that some of the most dangerous people in society have greater latitude to offend”
fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/

It really is time to recognise that transwomen are a subset of men, with the same behavioural and offending patterns as the major group.

"The British Association of Gender Identity Specialists (BAGIS) made such observations in a written submission to the Trans Equality Inquiry in 2015, highlighting some concerning reasons why some prisoners may wish to exploit the system. Members of BAGIS comprise the overwhelming majority of clinicians working in every gender identity clinic in the UK. The membership is drawn from all the involved disciplines and includes speech therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, surgeons, psychosexual counsellors, nurses, occupational therapists, endocrinologists, general practitioners, and social workers. An extract from the BAGIS submission to the Trans Equality Inquiry is given below"
fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/

“… the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences. It has been rather naively suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this. These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard. I am sure that the Governor concerned would be happy to talk about this.”

This sort of doublespeak is exactly why women object to the TWAW mantra. As soon as you start taking them out of a male category and putting them into a female one, meaningful stats go out of the window.

TWAMale. Rapists are all male. To remove the threat of rapists from women’s spaces you have to remove males. Ergo, you have to remove transwomen.

When and if the requirements for self-labelling as women become less strict, the level of sex offenders who declare themselves to be women will inevitably rise.

"The thoughts and observations of prison inmates can be found in online prison forums such as www.insidetime.org. The high level of sex offenders who are declaring themselves transgender has been commented on. This is an extract from a post by a male prisoner, who commented in December 2016 on the increasing numbers of transgender prisoners: “I find it pretty suspicious that the majority of these trans-jesters, as I call them, are sex offenders, and it turns out that transgender people do not have to do the Sex Offenders Treatment Programme”. " fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/

Just focus on the real majority of rapists. you want transwomen rapists to be discounted? This is beyond disgusting. Tell the transwoman's victim that their attacker was from a minority so doesn't really need any focus.

Even so it must be obvious to everyone that women must be far far more likely to be assaulted by men, than transwomen or men masquerading as women.
Well given we're intelligent women yes we know we are far more likely to be assaulted by a man who has not decided to transition to a transwoman. What is a man masquerading as a woman? Is that a drag queen? Why are they separated from either of the other two male categories?

Of course transwomen aren’t the biggest threat?. They are a small minority of the population- they would all have to be rapists to even begin to register as a group on any scale measured in percentages of the male population.

The point is that all rapists are men. All of them. 100%. For that reason many women do not want men in confined spaces with women who are vulnerable because of young or old age, physical or mental incapacity, illness, distress (eg after having been raped by a man) religion or any other reason.

Transwomen are male-bodied, even if you don’t define them as men, so even though they don’t feature highly in statistics of groups of rapists they are not welcome in women’s safe spaces either.

No one is condoning rape which is appalling. Just focus on the real majority of rapists. Remember these figures are only relating to convicted rapists. Most rapes are not reported. Most of those which are reported do not result in a conviction. So all these figures are gross underestimates of the real incidence of rape.

Even so it must be obvious to everyone that women must be far far more likely to be assaulted by men, than transwomen or men masquerading as women.

One of the problems that need sorting out is the way that transgender prisoners are listed in the data.
Read this: fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/