Girls and Physics. It's too hard for them. ?

Lots of very valid comments here....I'd like to think girls are encouraged much more in school , but parents also play a part.
My mother used to say , what do you want to do that for ?seemingly encouraging my sisters to be happy with home economics CSE and not worry about sciences you'll "never use again".
I was at school from the 60s and loved maths (and art) .. in co-ed til age 12 and frustrated that girls were almost dismissed as not interested in Physics when I found it fascinating.
Lucky to win a scholarship to a girls private school where I started bottom in maths for my year group (was top at previous school) but worked my way back up and had educational supplements published with my very neat workings for exam questions and answers .... I flew through Physics and Maths at O' then A'Level then went on to uni and got 1st Class Hons in Maths - the first in my family to go to Uni. I have no doubt that this would not have happened if I'd stayed in mainstream.

Oh for heavens sake. I would never have expected the mindless Twitter monstering of Katharine Birbalsingh to reach Gransnet.
She has never said that girls are not bright enough to do maths.
Her point is that they seem to gravitate towards subjects with a human/social/language element.
Pointing out that there are female astrophysicists etc does not disprove this because it’s an observation of general trends, not individuals.
Many teachers will tell you they have exactly the same problem in persuading girls that STEM subjects are for them.
Birbalsingh is a brilliant headteacher. She has created a school where children from extremely difficult backgrounds are getting the same results as kids from the poshest private schools. She is giving these students a REAL start in life instead of just talking about it.
She’s a tough nut and not always easy company - but takes the concept of levelling up deadly seriously, far more than any of the teachers’ union representatives (who hate her) ever have in my experience.
Her only mistake is to be on Twitter too much.

Absolute rubbish - irrespective of any context - girls are no less inclined than boys to want to engage in Maths as they get older - my Physicist professor hubby continually sees true brilliance in teenage (female) physicists. The fault is down entirely to politics, to lack of funding for education, failure to recruit physics and chemistry teachers into secondary schools, a curriculum that can substitute General Science for Physics, Chemistry and Biology on the assumption that some children can't handle the concepts involved. It's all a huge social engineering project. The independent schools have no problem getting girls to continue with their maths and physics - and that's a question of resourcing. Who would have thought? ??

Neilspurgeon0

Oh volver queuing theory is not complex, it is logical - and to be honest I was very well taught, albeit by, by chance, a male Professor, although he was never as good at teaching as my female Professor, the one who said I did not need to do the first year of the Cert. Ed. because after 14 years RN instructional practice, I already understood the underpinning theories of teaching at “an advanced level” so she APEL’d me onto the second year.

queue-it.com/blog/queuing-theory/

Oh yes. No maths at all.

One of my granddaughters was left in my care for 12 days while Mum & Dad were away on business. She was about 6 and a bit nervous about being away from them for so long, but she was at school and they didn't want her to miss so much. Granddaughter and I agreed we would read a book, one chapter a night while parents were away. I chose the book 'The Number Devil' by Hans Magnus Enzensberger. She was hooked and has been ever since. She still talks about that stay, and has gone on to study Maths and Physics. Maths should be taught to children as an exciting subject with relevance to life around them. Another Granddaughter failed GCSE Maths twice and wanted to get into University. Maths was obligatory. This was pre Zoom etc. I decided to coach her over the phone. We had the same text book each. She had no problem with the maths, just the way she had been taught. She is now doing a PhD.
The approach to teaching maths MUST be changed.

Oh volver queuing theory is not complex, it is logical - and to be honest I was very well taught, albeit by, by chance, a male Professor, although he was never as good at teaching as my female Professor, the one who said I did not need to do the first year of the Cert. Ed. because after 14 years RN instructional practice, I already understood the underpinning theories of teaching at “an advanced level” so she APEL’d me onto the second year.

I wonder what is 'nature' and what is 'nurture' for women. So much of our conditioning over centuries has about our being the nurturer, people centred etc and men having more logical brains and therefor more suited to maths, science etc. I don't think anyone is just one or the other ...we all have male and female aspects within us and I think women and men should be able to take any subject they have an interest in. It is still seen as a bit odd that a man stays at home and the women is a scientist. Society need to open up to examining our stereotyping.

I TRULY hope this woman has been misquoted

She hasn't been misquoted, one of the clips posted above has her saying this very thing.

It is in Telematics and required me to become familiar, among other things, with queuing theory and electron flow, however it did not require me to understand differential calculus

..I still cannot understand all that pure maths stuff..

Ah bless. NeilSpurgeon0, what do you think queuing theory is?

This is the problem, I think. People don't know what "hard maths" actually is and think its not something that's important in their lives.

I have a dear young friend via my son, she is currently studying for her Physics Masters at the best University in France. Tosh, I'm sure there are boys who don't choose physics for those reasons too - natural thing my foot!! I TRULY hope this woman has been misquoted, otherwise she has no place in any role, let alone education.

"Girls don't do maths, physics, chemistry, and boys do badly with languages."

I am seventy and have spent approximately 50 years teaching, and of course went to school before that.

People have been making these remarks all that time.

I would question whether girls today are choosing "people-orientated skills and professions" because they actually prefer them, or because whereas my generation of girls were encouraged to believe that we could learn the same things as boys of our age, and depending on inclination become just as good at them, the fashion has changed.

A lot of girls are being made to feel that " girls are no good at maths, hard science etc" so they give up in advance and do the subjects they are told they have "a natural aptitude for"

My experience as a teacher has taught me that children become good at the subjects that interest them, and to a slightly lesser extent the ones that were well taught.

If a teacher makes a subject interesting and worth learning, a child, no matter whether male or female will tend to become good at that subject.

Those teachers who either cannot communicate their knowledge to their classes or cannot do so so it becomes interesting tend to turn out a whole class that is only middling good at whatever subject he or she taught.

Men can look after babies, bar breast-feeding them, just as well as women can, but a lot don't want to and make use of the argument that the baby's mother or indeed any other female has a natural mothering instinct - bosh!

Women can make just as good mechanics, doctors, physicists (what incidently did Monsier Cure do? We remember his wife.) Mrs. Einstein did the maths to supportt her husband's relativity theory; Alfred was hopeless a maths and according to those he play chamber music with coudn't even count! A remark that probably was never meant literally.

Let us get away from these old stereotypes.

If girls choose not to do subjects like physics or maths, and boys not to learn languages or look after infants that is fine by me.

But it is not fine to stop them even trying by telling them that because they are girls not boys, or boys not girls, they cannot do certain things (well enough).

I confess that physics was too hard for me. However, I have a GD who will not be doing physics at A level because ‘that’s what the geeky boys do’ (like her big brother). She’s is a very bright girl at a highly selective private school, so what hope for getting other girls into the hard sciences if that’s her attitude.

When I was at grammar school at the of the 50s our science was Physics, Chemistry and Biology. I really loved Physics, but not Chem or Biol. but was not allowed to take my GCE in only Physics, so I didn’t carry on with Science. I felt quite ‘cheated’ at the time.

I always considered myself weak at maths - I was compared to others in my stream at school. It was only in later years that I realised that I’m quite good at mental arithmetic and am really no worse than most people at general maths. This myth I developed about myself dogged me throughout my school and undergraduate years. I did start ‘A’ level physics, but dropped it very rapidly once I realised that there might be a calculation or two to perform! I wanted to study science and was pointed in the direction of biology. Oddly, the chemistry lecturer at uni wanted me to transfer on to his module, but I never did.

I so agree with points being made about subjects boys might chose to study. Rounded educations enrich everyone’s lives.

Isn't that absolutely a load of tosh ?
I did A level sciences in 1975 .
Adored Physics. Really fascinating subject.
True there were only myself and one other girl amongst a lot of boys ( win win ) .
I think it's been sold to us for so long that girls can do maths etc that we've come to believe this but it's soòoo not true xx

With limited numbers of teachers who can teach STEM subjects well, Head Teachers may be encouraged to follow gender stereotypes in co - ed schools. A generalisation I know, but this does not exist in a single sex school. So girls get a better chance to study those subjects. My own Daughter was told by her Maths head that she would struggle as she is Dyslexic. So was given Philosophy, Modern Studies and History. Then she went on to do crash Advanced Maths, Psychics Chemistry and Biology at a College so she could get to her University of choice. Which she achieved.
I think it is the way schools are placed on league tables that hold girls back in STEM subjects.

Absolute tosh! I have a first class maths degree and absolutely love maths! The trouble is many teachers aren’t really maths specialists and put their own judgements on girls. I have always been competitive and for me the competition against the boys has always been a big driver for me. The degree I took was because it was harder than my brothers statistically and he only got a 2:1! With attitudes like this we really are going backwards…

I read this Headmistress’ article with interest when it appeared. It is concerning that less girls are choosing to study ‘hard’ mathematical subjects like Physics certainly. I am not particularly knowledgable about the current state of education in the UK (or should I say England); I take an interest in comparison to my own education and that of my (now adult) children and grandchildren. It is also useful to keep up with the current perceived state of play in important areas such as education. I don’t think all is going as well as it was intended tbh. Too many ‘difficult’ subjects are not being studied to ‘A’ level. Too many degrees (eg ‘media studies’, ‘gender studies’) which are not necessarily proven to be of use outside of the rarefied atmosphere of the university. All pupils regardless of sex should be encouraged to consider the sciences as fascinating and relevant. We are told that the poorest performing pupils are white boys. Isn’t this of concern too? The ‘dumbing down’ of educational standards (despite the vigorous protests of various parties) is widely accepted by Joe Public, including many employers. I know that when I was working in management I was horrified by the number of ‘fast tracked’ graduates we took on who could not spell or even write a decent paragraph! There’s only so much computer aided tools can do! I think it is the general malaise of educational and aspirational standards that are at fault here as well as possible gender bias. I speak as one who, VERY long ago at a single sex girls grammar, was encouraged to study and go further with the sciences. I was perfectly capable in those subjects which I enjoyed. Unfortunately, from some (not my own) perspectives, I enjoyed Classical Latin and Greek more, so chose that path. Whilst being far less remunerative, a not unimportant consideration today as always, I have never regretted my choice. It eventually led to a good, though not spectacular, career and a lifetime of treasuring and trying to personally expand the knowledge I gained.

Not a lot of actual thinking in most rote learning Dizzy although it does seem to have its place in KBs teaching style.

Foolishness.
Anyone can learn anything depending on how your brain is wired and if you are taught to Think.

Rubbish !

I've always understood that fewer girls are successful in Maths and Physics because girls and boys learn in different ways, hence why girls from single sex schools do better in these subjects - the teaching is done in the best way for girls to learn.
I speak as someone who did two maths A-levels in a girls' school back in the day when girls didn't generally succeed in maths.
They're just subjects you can learn like any other, you just need to be taught well.

Yes growstuff I do because, like most higher degrees mine was pretty specialist. It is in Telematics and required me to become familiar, among other things, with queuing theory and electron flow, however it did not require me to understand differential calculus which, as I left school with a grade 2 CSE in maths, had never been touched on in my useless technical school (which was really an excuse to save the local Dockyard one year off the apprentice training programme). Needless to say I did not enter the Dockyard as expected when I left school and, many years later having educated myself via distance learning, I was eventually accepted, without a first degree, to study for the MSc which I passed at Merit level. I still cannot understand all that pure maths stuff, but have taught in university and college Computer Science departments with great success.

It’s not all about the breadth of study, often knowing and understanding a smaller but critical area of expertise, your niche if you will, where a great career can lie.

Neilspurgeon0

I am with Grandma70s. As a not very bright boy in a 1950s junior school, my teacher introduced us to good British ballads, Sir Patrick Spens springs instantly to mind but there were many others, as a way to understand the richness of the English Language and to broaden our vocabularies. I never did really get to grips with complex Maths, although I hold an MSc and a Physics A Level, but the beauty and joy in absorbing fine poetry has been far far far more rewarding in my life than all that mechanical number crunching for a living. Spreadsheets are tools, fine verse is an honour.

What I find rewarding in life is knowing how the universe works. Being able to describe the Higgs Boson to you. Feeling proud of how I contributed to the development of PV solar cells. Amazingly, I can also appreciate poetry and plays, enjoy classical music and the music of folk traditions throughout Europe.

Doesn't work the other way though. Must say, there aren't any humanities graduates I know who can explain the Higgs Boson to me.

I haven't done any mechanical number crunching since I did Arithmetic O-Grade at the age of 15. You're right about one thing though. It seems you never did get to grips with complex maths.

I was taught as a small child that maths was too difficult and was steered towards caring professions. I taught my children that they could do whatever they set out to do with determination and hard work, regardless of gender. Now in her twenties my daughter spends her days working with maths and is thriving.