Is Liz Truss intending to take the UK to war?

Agree with you for an unprecedented third time volver.
Anyone remember the days when Thatcher’s handbag was feared?

The absolute last thing we want is for Putin to declare war on the west, but I still think he is an evil bully, and if bullies aren’t stopped they will carry on. I just wish there was a solution that doesn’t involve more death and destruction.

That's true dinahmo. As do the Russians. But by doing it now, the military are strategically placed to take action should that become unavoidable. Incidentally this year is the first in my adult life that I am not either a military wife or military mum and I feel so much for them all just now.

I think “wriggle room” is vital. Putin will not want to appear to have lost. Diplomacy, not threats has got to be the way in the end, but I hope many thousands more lives will not continue to be lost beforehand.

Yes definitely. Wasn’t she nicknamed by staffers the human grenade quite early in her political career?

You must get a different edition of the Guardian from me, OakDryad, it's in today (Friday)'s letter page ?

I see it's quoted there as 'talk quietly, rather than 'walk quietly, which does make more sense ?

Anyway, I think it's ridiculous to up the ante verbally in an exercise in competitive threatening.. Far better to both leave your opponent guessing, and, give them a bit of wriggle room.

Thanks, volver, for saving me from having to point out MOnica's misinterpretation...

volver

M0nica

A big stick can be far more damaging to someone than a sabre. So whether you prefer swords or sticks, it is just a choice of weapon, not a choice between an aggressive or non aggressive item to carry.

It is a distinction without a difference.

The relevant bit is about walking quietly. Something Truss would do well to try and do.

Here, here

M0nica

A big stick can be far more damaging to someone than a sabre. So whether you prefer swords or sticks, it is just a choice of weapon, not a choice between an aggressive or non aggressive item to carry.

It is a distinction without a difference.

The relevant bit is about walking quietly. Something Truss would do well to try and do.

A big stick can be far more damaging to someone than a sabre. So whether you prefer swords or sticks, it is just a choice of weapon, not a choice between an aggressive or non aggressive item to carry.

It is a distinction without a difference.

MaizieD

With regard to LIz Truss, I saw a nice saying on mumsnet yesterday "Walk quietly but carry a big stick". I like that better than sabre rattling...

I suspect that may come from the letters page in yesterday's Guardian. Truss would do well to pay heed to what is written there:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/28/liz-truss-careless-talk-fans-the-flames-of-war-in-ukraine

There are three inter-related and mutually reinforcing principles for peacekeeping

1. Consent of the parties
2. Impartiality
3. Non-use of force except in self-defence and defence of the mandate

Coco51

I don’t know why the UN isn’t sending neutral multi-national peacekeeping forces in. As Russia is a founder member of the UN Putin would have to think very carefully before continuing his butchery in Ukraine

To send in Peace Keepers both sides need to have, at least in the first instance, agreed to peace.

Putin will not stop as it is not in his nature to stop. The Western democracies cannot afford not to help drive him back and, hopefully, break the Russian economy. If they don't stop him now how will they stop him from moving out of Ukraine into other European countries? He believes Russia is entitled to an empire.

With regard to LIz Truss, I saw a nice saying on mumsnet yesterday "Walk quietly but carry a big stick". I like that better than sabre rattling...

As a military mum and mum inlaw this is very concerning to me. My son and daughter inlaw have both done Afghan and Iraq hopefully this one not added to their cvs. Yes I no joined to protect our country etc but when you the parent sitting at home worrying you not Don’t see it the same way.

I also agree with others that Britain is not at war.

Maizie, I had heard your explanation before. If Pres. Putin thinks that all former Soviet countries wish to return to the Soviet era. He's on a hiding to nothing. Countries will not comply. Though I do wonder where that leaves us......

I agree with grandtante and M0nica. Hitler took over Austria and the Sudetenland before invading Poland. If he had not been opposed at that point he probably would have carried on.

Putin invaded Chechnya and the Crimea before Ukraine. If he hadn’t been opposed at that point he might well have carried on too.

I hate war, but maybe sometimes it is the lesser of two evils.

As it has been around others who have been knocked off by snipers.

Germanshepherdsmum

Give it time.

I don't think it will happen because security around him will be water-tight.

Taichinan

We would be appear to BE at war as we are sending 8,000 troops to join a UN force in an exercise that surrounds Russia - reminiscent of Putin's 'exercise" that surrounded Ukraine before he invaded. I have no idea how Putin can be stopped - short of annihilating the Kremlin and all who in it sit. And that just doesn't bear thinking about as it implies a nuclear war - as he is working to his own megalomaniac agenda. I just wish we didn't have Johnson as PM at this time (although I can't think of anyone else either, from any political party, who is up to the job.)

Apparently we engage in exercises in the same countries every few years. The current troop movements are supposedly part of the cycle.

Give it time.

The Russian army has killed babies. I am surprised that no-one has put a bullet in Putin.

winterwhite It's plain that Putin reacts to force and threats with more force and threats.

Are you suggesting that if we do not react to Putin by supporting Ukraine with armaments and telling Putin what we will do if he tries to invade another country or use nuclear weapons, that you think Putin will then stop, apologise and take all his army and guns out of Ukraine?

What do you suggest we do? Wag our finger at him amd tell him he is a naughty boy and he should go home? How do you think that would work?

He has everyone scared of what he could do next and he knows it, he's crazy and enjoying every blooming minute of it. Some of his soldiers are as bad as him when you listen to the disgusting things they are doing 'for kicks'. Scum.

Putin may want more wars than the one, oops sorry, it is a "military operation" he already has on his hands.

Apparently, some pro-Russians seperatists in Moldavia would quite like one too.

No-one else is stupid enough to "want" war, but the EU has no intention of allowing Putin to get away with walking into Ukraine and saying "I want!" (Remember what we were told as children that those who said "I want" got? According to my mother, " A smacked bottom!"

For the simple, very good reason that if we, irrespective of whether we means the EU, NATO the EU + NATO, or any other combination of countries you can think of, lets Putin get away with what he has done, he will want more. A person like Putin can only be stopped by force - reasoned argument won't cut it.

Moldavia, Poland, Romania have good cause to be worried as they are next in line and Hungary should be worried too, but seems less so.

Someone once said "Si vis pacem, para bellum" "If you want peace, prepare for war" and that is precisely what Europe is doing right now. This does not mean we want or hope that it comes, but we are not prepared to caught napping as we were in 1940.

I hope and trust that the UN can get the civilians out of Mariupol - but I doubt it. The only way the soldiers have any hope of getting out is by letting the civilians get away first, then coming out guns blazing. Many of them will be killed, but that will be their fate if the Russians get their hands on them anyhow. So either they commit suicide like the garrison of Masada, or they fight till they drop.

I may be cynical, but I very much doubt any Ukranian soldiers left in Mariupol has a hope of getting out alive, unless the steel works have a sewer system reminiscent of the one in the ghetto at Warsaw.