Is Liz Truss intending to take the UK to war?

Whitewavemark2

I’ve already outlined it.

Does no one ever read posts!!

I think that NATO has shown good restraint, it hasn’t deviated from the parameters it first laid down after Russia invaded, and individual countries will continue to supply arms. USA is just voting for $33bn largely for arms.

So restraint and support. Putin will only stop when he is forced to do so by Ukraine, which makes sense to continue with the supply of arms to the Ukraine army. NATO should not be drawn into the war, Putin will simply be able to say to the Russians that he was right about the danger from NATO.

Eventually and hopefully soon a compromise will be negotiated. But silly nonsense from people like Truss does not help any of it.

Perhaps you need to listen/read what President Putin has been saying.

NATO supplying Ukraine is tantamount to them entering a war against Russia

President Putin’s words not mine.

I’ve already outlined it.

Does no one ever read posts!!

I think that NATO has shown good restraint, it hasn’t deviated from the parameters it first laid down after Russia invaded, and individual countries will continue to supply arms. USA is just voting for $33bn largely for arms.

So restraint and support. Putin will only stop when he is forced to do so by Ukraine, which makes sense to continue with the supply of arms to the Ukraine army. NATO should not be drawn into the war, Putin will simply be able to say to the Russians that he was right about the danger from NATO.

Eventually and hopefully soon a compromise will be negotiated. But silly nonsense from people like Truss does not help any of it.

After being in pain with arthritic knee since last year, and having tried various things, I have been to see a physio who told me tha problem is coming from my hip! Nobody mentioned hip! Now yesterday went to see ortho Consultant, told him this. He sent me for pelvic x-ray there and then. Yes, it is arthritis in right hip! Should have spotted that.
So now am to have a steroid injection in hip, after having had one in knee!
Am feeling pretty low. Can't drive as uncomfortable. Would love to find a way to drive. Sorry for long post but is there anyone out there with some optimistic advice?

We do not need silly shouts from the sidelines at this stage of the game we need action

Your words Whitewavemark2 what action are you proposing?

GrannyGravy13

Casdon

I agree volver and Whitewavemark2. She’s like a mouthy infant in the high school playground, shouting ‘Look at me, I’m important!’

So what /how do you think President Putin sounds?

It doesn’t matter! What matters now is not his threats and bluster, it is actions.

So far he has not been very successful and the Russian strategy has been pretty dismal. It is clear that with the extra armaments at present being sent to Ukraine the push back will be much more effective.

We don’t need silly shouts from the side line at this stage of the game we need action.

Other leaders/Foreign Secretaries are saying exactly the same…

And I said all of them. Which you seem to have conveniently ignored. That wouldn't be politically motivated, would it?

Did anyone see the interview with a former Chief of General Staff recently? He said that we should not supply Ukraine with planes because their pilots were used to flying earlier Russian planes. Furthermore our planes would need British pilots to fly them which could be seen as a further escalation of the war in Putin's eyes.

He did however suggest that Poland and elsewhere has the older Russian planes and that they should be given to the Ukrainians and that we should then replace those with our own planes. It made sense to me.

GrannyGravy13

Casdon

I agree volver and Whitewavemark2. She’s like a mouthy infant in the high school playground, shouting ‘Look at me, I’m important!’

So what /how do you think President Putin sounds?

He sounds like a dictator. He is a dictator.

volver

No. That's really low.

I have a brain and that means I can work things out and not act like I'm in an episode of Dad's Army.

Although if being Tory means endangering the effort to bring Putin down and to bring this war to an end, just so that the folks back home think I'm tough, then I guess I'm not a Tory.

Sorry but the anti Ms Truss rhetoric is politically motivated.

Other leaders/Foreign Secretaries are saying exactly the same…

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW PUTIN SOUNDS

Its not a game GG13. Its not tit for tat.

Putin sounds like a war mongering despot. Putin doesn't need an excuse of anything.

Are we going to stand there and throw daft comments at him and say "you started it"? This is war, not an argument in the 5th form common room.

GrannyGravy13

Political bias is clouding your judgment

No, I’d feel very differently if it was a serious Tory politician. Jeremy Hunt would have behaved very differently.

Casdon

I agree volver and Whitewavemark2. She’s like a mouthy infant in the high school playground, shouting ‘Look at me, I’m important!’

So what /how do you think President Putin sounds?

No. That's really low.

I have a brain and that means I can work things out and not act like I'm in an episode of Dad's Army.

Although if being Tory means endangering the effort to bring Putin down and to bring this war to an end, just so that the folks back home think I'm tough, then I guess I'm not a Tory.

I agree volver and Whitewavemark2. She’s like a mouthy infant in the high school playground, shouting ‘Look at me, I’m important!’

Political bias is clouding your judgment

volver yes.

Action not words!

That was why I was banging on about heavier more effective military arms etc.

Yes and I bet stuff is going on behind the scene. Lots of oil/supply installations going up in fire in Russian territory for one thing.

Truss is addressing what she thinks is her domestic audience. She is a fool.

This is not facing down a bully in the playground. This is not about pretending to show how tough you are or standing there with your fists up saying come on then if you think you're hard enough. This is not about playing tough for your home audience, although that seems to be working here.

What earthly good did it do for Truss to say Russia have to get right out of Ukraine? Nobody is proposing any appeasement, we should have taken a stand 8 years ago when he invaded Crimea, but we didn't. Putin doesn't need an excuse. But I wonder what's all over the news in Russia tonight? I'm going to guess its Truss, with the newscaster saying "look, here's proof, the West are out to get us".

All this silly "Standing up to Putin with words" stuff is just that - silly. What we need is action and I'd bet my pension that there are things going on behind the scenes that none of us know about. And that somewhere tonight, there is some bloke you've never heard of who is actually doing something to get this war to an end, who is cursing Truss and all the rest of them who think they are playing at being tough guys.

Just read my post with an objective eye and not with what you think I said.

You are barking entirely up the tree!

I might add he is already threatening Moldavia, that he probably thinks, as things are going badly in Ukraine might be an easier target.

Remember Martin Niemoller's poem First They Came

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

We are in danger of doing that on a national level.

Well said, MOnica.

M0nica

WWM2 Do you really believe that Putin would think twice about sending his guns where his mouth is.

What you are saying is exactly what everyone was saying when he was threatening Ukraine. It is just bullying talk - then he invaded, no one now can afford to ignore his talk, because he will not hesitate to enforce it, if he doesn't get what he wants.

We have been down the appeasement route once in the last century, we do not want to do it again.

I’m not sure what post you have just read, but it certainly wasn’t mine.

volver

Glad you lot aren't in charge of MI6.

There's a difference between appeasing someone and rattling your sabre. And Truss and co. are sabre rattling.

If Truss & Co to use your words are sabre rattling what do you think President Putin is doing?

WWM2 Do you really believe that Putin would think twice about sending his guns where his mouth is.

What you are saying is exactly what everyone was saying when he was threatening Ukraine. It is just bullying talk - then he invaded, no one now can afford to ignore his talk, because he will not hesitate to enforce it, if he doesn't get what he wants.

We have been down the appeasement route once in the last century, we do not want to do it again.

Putin is only upping the anti verbally, he certainly isn’t doing so on the ground.

Upping the international discourse in return is not particularly sensible it does nothing useful.

The west is supplying Ukraine with heavier and more effective weapons, and I think that we can expect, if reports are correct, Ukraine begin to push back successfully. That is what is going to make the difference.

Poking the bear is not sensible.

Once again I find myself agreeing with volver. Must lie down …