Roe v Wade

It would seem that regulations regarding women's health, including abortion, are being proposed by ignorant American politicians and, indeed, the Supreme Court without any consultation with doctors or other experts. I think it was in Georgia that a law was proposed that an ectopic pregnancy must be removed and then re-implanted in the uterus. There is no known medical process for doing this and the law was not passed. I can't remember which state limits abortion to a maximum of six weeks' pregnancy, arguing that this allows plenty of time for it to be arranged. Timing of pregnancy is calculated from the date of a woman's last period so most women would be unlikely to be aware that they are pregnant for at least three weeks and I don't think there is a test sensitive enough to detect such an early pregnancy. Some fool senator assured his listeners that in the course of "true" rape a woman's body "shuts down" and will not become pregnant, obviously implying that anyone seeking abortion because of pregnancy as a result of rape is lying, was complicit and should be punished by being forced to carry the child to term. There have even been suggestions that any woman who has an abortion should be executed.

It is all about control and has nothing to do with ethics or morality. Misogyny is deeply rooted in some parts of the USA and I suspect that fear of women gaining more freedoms and power is also part of the mix.

Pedwards

The death penalty & the right to shot someone is not the same as killing an innocent unborn child.
If you’re religious - abortion is the ultimate sin. Far far worse than killing an adult criminal ( death penalty ) or even killing any adult.

Thanks, Farzanah.

This was voted on by MPs in March Baggs and it was decided that “pills by post” could continue in England indefinitely, in line with Wales. I don’t know about Scotland.
Some vulnerable women may not seek help otherwise, and this seems a positive step to me.

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

We don't have a written constitution.

I think the Supreme court will eventually over throw RvW which will mean some states will make abortion very difficult if not impossible. Abortion will still be permitted in more liberal states which means women will travel to access abortion as they did in the past. The problem now is that some of those women will face prosecution when they return home.

We do have a written constitution. We don't have a codified constitution.

Can you provide me with a link to this constitution please. Your previous post which was a quote stated quite clearly there is no written constitution. But if you have evidence and a link to one I'm quite willing to be corrected.
As far as I know the UK has never had a written constitution.
Some people think we should have one.

A single link to an uncodified constitution appears to be an oxymoron. So no, no one would be able to provide you with it although they may be able to direct you to libraries that could help. As I said, it isn't in a "single document". I'm not sure what I can add for clarification to "written but not codified."

It's not surprising, given the very different dates when our Kingdoms were recognised, the subsequent creation of the United Kingdom and the changes in Ireland, that, like Topsy it "just growed". It was easier for the much younger USA to create a codified (planned and organised) constitution. However, we have made agreements and laws over the centuries and give or take the odd hiccup, I would say our system works as well as theirs does.

If you want to see the various laws, rules and regulations I'm afraid you would need to consult a constitutional historian. I can't imagine you would think someone on GN would have that sort of time to give.

In the UK the right to abortion is enshrined in statute - the Abortion Act 1967. In the US that right depends on judicial interpretation of the constitution. A huge difference.

I tuned in, as it often do to James O’Brien on LBC today who was talking about this, some interesting discussions with callers, including why do these people claim to be ‘pro life’ when they clearly don’t care about the woman’s life, also are likely to be those on the right who also believe in bearing arms and the death penalty! Work that one out!

I thought the pills by post scheme was only brought in because of covid, gbatty, and the system in place before is being returned to now because the covid approach is no longer necessary.

Someone up thread said it only affects women in USA. The Tories have passed a law banning abortion pills being posted directly. Steve Baker is along the lines of the fundamental republicans in USA and Rees Mogg has been muttering about abortions, so don't be too sure.

DaisyAnne

Mmm. I don't think that's how it works although I doubt you are alone in wanting it to be so Baggs.

One of the reasons this is viewed through a haze is the MPs' lack of proberty. They stand on a platform written into their manifesto. That is what we are voting for; that is what they have promised to do. But how much have we been able to trust them to follow it in recent years?

Changes may well be needed but we currently have the system we have.

I don't think politicians can "promise" really. They can set out their aims for sure and write what they intend to do in ideal circumstances but ideal doesn't happen much, witness the last couple of years and now the Russian invasion of Ukraine to mess everything up.

You are right that many people vote for the 'platform' on which politicians stand. Possibly even most do, even me, but it is not the details I vote for, more the whole philosophy of a political outlook. I doubt that is very uncommon but I could be wrong. I might be seen to be nit-picking a difference between platform and philosophy but it doesn't feel like that to me. I see platforms as more detailed and full of so-called promises and philosophy (socialism, classical liberalism, conservatism, etc) more as a basis for approaching difficulties.

Late to gransnet, tough times here which means, u usually, I haven’t read all the comments before posting.
I’m fearful of this decision in the USA. Women have been dying when attempting to terminate an unwanted pregnancy since life began. The move to attempt to reduce/stop availability to abortion won’t change that. Most of us are old enough to have lived through the pre 1967 period, when women died after self inflicted, or illegal back street abortions
The majority of women seeking abortion i the US are so called, lower economy’s social groups. They can’t afford to take time off work, fly to states where termination may be possible.
I heard Ann Robinson on women’s hour today and felt sympathetic but - her story is one of many, the majority of whom, 50 years later, have regret they were in need but don’t regret having a termination
Disgusting to see red neck men leading on this

Germanshepherdsmum

At least this case only affects women in the US. Thank goodness

... but you know what they say... "when America sneezes, etc."

At least this case only affects women in the US. Thank goodness

There was a man on talk radio this morning who was totally against abortion. He said it was half the males DNA and any women could have their child adopted. No suggestion the father brings the child up. Unbelievable. Nothing changes!

?

“Kate West

Someone please ask
@MargaretAtwood
what happens to us next.

Margaret E. Atwood
@MargaretAtwood
·
1h
Working on it...”

We await with interest.

foxie48

... the role of women in many of the Evangelical churches is "submissive to but equal to men

I don't know how that works, either! It's a complete contradiction.

And the whole notion of women being obedient and biddable to men fills me with dread. Even if the men are kindly and accommodating.

Thanks for the link - I'll have a look.

Dickens Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale" is closer than we realise. I'm glad I won't be alive to see how it ends.

I don't think you are that wide of the mark, the role of women in many of the Evangelical churches is "submissive to but equal to men" Mmmm, not quite sure how that works!
You may have seen this
www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/17/key-facts-about-the-abortion-debate-in-america/
but it is key to why there is such a strong anti abortion lobby. 77% of white Evangelical Christians believe abortion should be illegal in all or most cases! (43% of Catholics) As 70% of Americans profess a religious affiliation it doesn't bode well, does it. On a brighter side, religious affiliation is reducing (slowly). If the twins research linking religion to genes www.newscientist.com/article/dn7147-genes-contribute-to-religious-inclination/ is correct perhaps it's the result of so many Europeans fleeing religious persecution?

But thank you. I have never had a particular interest in Anne Robinson but I thought that was a very measured moving conversation.

I am not sure what you are demonstrating with that clip. That some women have regrets? , of course, that some womens views change depending on their stage of life, of course, that despite what women would do personally they would fight for the right of women to make that choice, of course.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202205/medium-475331-screenshot-2022-05-04-171152.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202205/medium-858144-screenshot-2022-05-04-171211.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202205/medium-385098-screenshot-2022-05-04-171436.jpg

.

twitter.com/BBCWomansHour/status/1521867257453895680?t=JOfz7ZsK8ahp_unUNHJR4g&s=19

Be aware DaisyAnne that volver may fire a salvo at you now for posting what someone in America posted - as she did me in the first page.

Daisy’s post is a summary of what a single person thinks, and doesn’t seek to extend it to knowing how it will affect the rest of the population.

Your post was an attempt to undermine polls, and your friend’s comments sought to pretend they know what the rest of America thinks, and then reduced the whole thing to a party political issue.

HTH

Dickens --A country where the God-fearing-Right watch the slaughter - sometimes days in succession - of innocents (frequently children), because yet another unstable individual has opened fire with a gun; and screech like hell if anyone has the temerity to talk about gun-control... a country which doesn't believe in 'socialised' health care (God damn Commies) and seems content to let those without insurance (and sometimes with it) go without treatment or medicine - even for drugs on which their life depends, because they can't afford the 'commodity'... is hardly in a position to moralise about the 'right to life'

They are not in love with little babies, I doubt they care tuppence what happens to the child after it's born. They are protecting their own supremacy, and women demanding safe abortions are a threat to their status, as are women in positions of power, or women who question the patriarchy... as is gay marriage.

This is the ideology of the South East (bible belt) and Mid-West America

Indeed.

NanKate

Girls/women who are raped by someone they know, a stranger or a relative will be forced to give birth. What happens to the men involved ? NOTHING !

Why is it always the women who the price ?

In some states their families can sue the woman if she has an abortion. If she doesn’t, I believe I read they can sue for visitation.

It’s a war on women

Elegran

Planned parenthood - but the planning and the inconvenience of contraception would be firmly in the hands of the possible father, and so would the intrusion into his body.

... not such a crazy idea Elegran.

If these righteous men are really so concerned with the right-to-life of 'Gaard's Creashun', they should surely be willing to accept their part of the responsibility in creating that life.

But we know this is not what it's about. A country where the God-fearing-Right watch the slaughter - sometimes days in succession - of innocents (frequently children), because yet another unstable individual has opened fire with a gun; and screech like hell if anyone has the temerity to talk about gun-control... a country which doesn't believe in 'socialised' health care (God damn Commies) and seems content to let those without insurance (and sometimes with it) go without treatment or medicine - even for drugs on which their life depends, because they can't afford the 'commodity'... is hardly in a position to moralise about the 'right to life'

They are not in love with little babies, I doubt they care tuppence what happens to the child after it's born. They are protecting their own supremacy, and women demanding safe abortions are a threat to their status, as are women in positions of power, or women who question the patriarchy... as is gay marriage.

This is the ideology of the South East (bible belt) and Mid-West America. I saw a nailed board placard in someone's garden in one of these states announcing that "God chose Trump to save America. Amen".

Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale" is closer than we realise. I'm glad I won't be alive to see how it ends.

... and Rees-Mogg thought Trump would be our "greatest ally" after Brexit. I find it slightly incongruous that a self-styled patrician with deeply-held Catholic views, steeped in the tradition of Victorian England, would commend a pussy-grabbing, uncouth business magnate with no discernible civility, culture or intellect. But I suppose power and money trumps (excuse the pun) decency, integrity and morality every time...