The loss of freedom of speech, of sidelining women and biology

Apologies for thinking you were serious. ?

I'm not sure how naming her would stand - she is 18, so not a minor.

Hope he doesn't though.

Would it be legal for him to publicise the girl's name? I doubt it.
It would be horrendous bullying behaviour from him to do that.

I was being sarcastic but maybe not obvious enough.

FarNorth

OJ, not actually in the Guardian but on his Twitter, invited the 'other side' to contact him anonymously.
I can't see anything going wrong with that, can you?

He asked the other pupils and the teachers to contact him, to find out who she was.

There was an article earlier, because it was a headline TV programme, late last night, and two panellists were discussing it, but it seems to have been dropped for one about homophobia now.

However, it appears most of his tweets about this, have been deleted, by him, I assume. Perhaps he didn't like some of the replies.

I would imagine that he will find out who she is from other pupils, publicise it, and then the girl will be subject to more abuse.

So, yes, I can see a problem with it.

That article by Milli Hill is terrifying.
That professional people dealing with the most basic human biology are vociferously joining in with biology denial in their work is absolutely horrific.

OJ, not actually in the Guardian but on his Twitter, invited the 'other side' to contact him anonymously.
I can't see anything going wrong with that, can you?

Yes, I used to like Owen Jones, as he did campaign for stuff around government policies and increasing poverty etc.

But, this subject has bought out the worst in him, and he should be ashamed of himself.?

I'm not surprised at the Guardian though - they are very much on the side of rewriting biology.?

That young lady is only 18, she was speaking an absolute truth, and she's been abused and spat at.

What an indictment of that private school/college and its discipline - her parents wasted their money.

Following on from the bullied schoolgirl......... Owen Jones of the Guardian has tweeted that why isn't the school and the girl named to 'verify' this "story" (his quotation marks) and he's invited any of the 60 who spat and bullied to message him with their side of the story. He may be a misogynist but he's not stupid, he knows things will be even worse for the girl if she's publicly identified. He is a vile bully himself, the ideology is everything to him, except he knows what a woman is when it comes to wanting to co-parent a child.

Milli Hill has written an article for the DM, about midwifery lecturers teaching students that men can give birth: ?

Not on Planet Earth, as far as I know....?

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10826897/Trans-debate-midwives-taught-men-birth-despair-MILLI-HILL-says.html

Thank you for the Times link FN. I’ve forwarded it to the parents who are concerned about what’s going on at my GD school.

Worrying that gullible teenagers can buy these things though.

They could be harming themselves permanently.?

It doesn't - it contributes to male domination, which is what all of this is about, unfortunately.

DL They are probably the same pills, some in pink packaging, some in blue.

The snake oil sellers will be cheering Stonewall and other trans activists..

Separate sports categories in sports where women are massively disadvantaged when competing against larger, stronger men doesn't lead to segregation for women either - but not having them leads to women giving up participating in their sport completely as "the game isn't worth the candle". How can this contribute to "diversity" ?

And now tablets are being sold on EBay, for 60p each, to teenagers, to "assist transitioning",

Some claim to increase muscle mass, some to enhance breast size.

As with any drug sold on the net, there is no regulation over what they are. ?

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10744175/60p-sex-change-pills-sold-online.html

And both Putin and many TRAs (and their supporters on threads like these) accuse 'dissenters' of being Nazis. As I say, it's like listening to people parroting from a crib sheet.

The broad left really needs to get its act together, and separate out actual discrimination against transpeople from resistance to TRA propaganda, and spell this out in their manifesto. It's one thing to resist transphobia and quite another to be caught up in the TWAW fascism that is threatening the position of women in large parts of the West.

I'm seeing more of the 'women's spaces soon lead to segregation for women' argument, too, which is clearly from the same stable. Of course they don't. We've managed for years to have separate facilities for when people are in states of undress or vulnerability. They haven't led to segregation at all - just separate loos in mixed venues, or sensible positioning of changing rooms (ladies' in womenswear, and gents in menswear), and women-only refuges and prisons.

One of the ways of uniting people is to make them all fear a common enemy.

Elegran, re your post at 11:49, I do wonder if that’s what’s going on in Russia at the moment. The Russian people as a whole really can’t believe nowhere in Russia is being attacked by missiles and armies than Ukraine is not making war against them.
Putin’s way of silencing them is very much like some of the things going on today where a minority insist that the lie they tell is the truth is true and anyone who disagrees is phobic and liable to attack.

Sorry to invoke the spectres of the Third Reich and Chairman Mao, but when people are not allowed to express genuine and unphobic concerns about the way that "diversity" now means that it is not permitted to have and state an opinion which diverges from that of an organisation devoted to "Diversity Champions" then we are in a spiral that threatens to end up as a whirlpool swallowing diversity of thought .

James Esses, in the video I posted earlier in this thread, explains that his intended career as a therapist is probably impossible for him now that he has been expelled from his course because of his concerns about 'trans' children.
Other trainee therapists will know that they must toe the line.
They will continue to do so as they affirm trans identity in their work.

It really seems to be as bad as that Elegran.

"liberal and left wing thinkers" are in the same position as was anyone in the Third Reich who stated views which differed from the official line, or anyone whose philosophy differed from that of Chairman Mao. They were silenced by fear of the repercussions for their reputation, employment and career, their safety and that of their children from physical and psychological abuse. They were gaslighted into believing that they must be wrong to cling to their convictions - and if they persisted, they found themselves in the Gulags, or in the virtual Gulags of disapproval and isolation.

Exactly FarNorth I wish some prominent left wingers would be on the side of women, or at least more neutral people like Robert Winston.
The only left winger I can think of off hand is Rosie Duffield, who received no support at all from her own party.
(this is just a bit of a bugbear of my own though, I don't want to set the thread off at a tangent)

In "Material Girls" Kathleen Stock says "The Stonewall Diversity Champions scheme gives organisations access to PR-friendlybranding in exchange for their instigating - to put it frankly - certsin measures of social control. Current members of the scheme include blue-chip companies, political parties, local authorities, government departments such as the Department for Education, schools, most universities, newspapers and broadcasters, police and the armed forces, the Crown Prosecution Service, the Equality and Human Rights Commisiion, and many other major national bodies. Effectively, Stonewall seems to be aiming at the removal from member organisations of any public reference whatsoever to sex that might offend a trans person, by anyone. For instance, as already described, it explicitly advises: " You should allow anyone to access facilities, spaces, and groups which align with theirgender identity." More generally, though, there's a heavy emphasis on controlling language and behaviour even when it comes to issues that have nothing to do with space allocation.

Good point Ilovecheese.

"liberal and left wing thinkers" , though, seem not to be doing much thinking beyond 'be kind'.

Here's a short trailer for a documentary by Matt Walsh. He is a far-right American with whom I don't think I have much in common but I do agree with his, previously uncontroversial, view on the existence of biological sex.

m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR1gX8t9hiKUNcL_NsYxOcRlCxhabwCEva98Rx8kXcVXABDcobS7dh8F3Rk&v=42ivIRd9N8E&feature=youtu.be