The loss of freedom of speech, of sidelining women and biology

DiamondLily @ 09.19; but surely that can't be? An intact male with no GRC, convicted of murder, being placed in a women's prison because he says he's a woman, has drunken sex with a female prisoner? Surely not! No one would ever have seen this coming would they? Oh wait.... we did.

Chewbacca, DiamondLily @09.19
Who could be that shortsighted? Now let me see.
Those wearing blinkers, the truly naive, those whose disrespect for females overrides any common sense they might have or those who deliberately risk the safety of females.
Can you imagine the outcry there would be if that woman had pulled out a knife and stabbed the rapist?

No doubt he was just being his "authentic self" MollyGo?

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202205/medium-150441-da423727-250b-4a2c-a0f6-017219bfe1e1.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202205/medium-418167-557cbf2b-8ec8-428f-b094-8803178d8c30.jpeg

I feel so strong about this that I’ve joined woman’s right because us real should stand up for ourselves and our granddaughters just because a man puts on a dress don’t make him a woman and now they is a trans doll see my photos

just found this thread. It is very astonishing, and I'm glad the subject is not being ignored or brushed away by gransnet. It is the most extraordinary social issue of our time.
I think it comes down to a mental health issue. People want to change irrevocably when they are distressed to the point that they want to erase themselves and what better way than to reinvent themselves as the other sex. Its a sign, a symptom of distress. However, encouraging it is wrong because it tears down natural safeguards protecting the female sex.
Back to basics...when you go for a prenatal scan and wish to know sex of child...it is based on whether there is a visible penis or not. That's it. When you breed animals at weaning you sex them, that is you separate those that have penises from those that don't. Foolproof.
Suddenly we are expected to believe that the presence of a penis is meaningless. It isn't. Female sexual characteristics eg mammary glands are not visible till puberty. Female sex organs are inside the body.
I am equally sure that all creatures with penises, about to be separated from females, if they could speak, would say...NO I identify as not having one...yeh well, sorry too risky.
back to basics. It is not better or worse to have a penis it is just fundamentally sexually different. I just wish people would wise up - stop using the word gender when they mean sex... stop letting children think it is a moveable feast...only those with penises gain.
Dont let penis-havers call all the shots...they always have and this is a sign they are very desperate. Hold strong, resist all changes that put females at risk. Thats what being kind is.

Well said, Treelover.

Who, even five years ago, would have thought that things would have got this far without there being an outcry? It would have been beyond belief, and in many ways it still is.

Brilliantly summarised Treelover, I too think that mental health issues are involved and your theory about wanting to reinvent themselves is an excellent point. The supporters and enablists of trans are doing irreparable harm to a whole generation of young people who are being set up for a lifetime of confusion and disconnect that they've been actively encouraged to embark on. As for men who murder, rape and sexually abuse women and children and then hide behind a sudden realisation that they're actually "women" in order to be placed in a prison with yet more vulnerable women; how on earth can the TRAs and their allies live with their conscience, knowing that they've enabled it?

It seems the sex was consensual, although they were both drunk.

But, I would imagine many people in prison do suffer from sexual frustration, and allowing biological men and biological women to mix like this will result in the inevitable.

And, no doubt, at one point, the sex won't be consensual.

Males, females, and Trans should be imprisoned separately.

Simple.?

Great post Treelover especially the final paragraph in which you sum up that's what being kind is.

Excellent summary Treelover. Who could have predicted that a female MP would say that some women are born with a penis? Especially one who claims to have a daughter and a son, how on earth is she judging that since apparently external genitalia is not an indication?

There are some who don’t believe sex is immutable, just as some don’t believe the Earth is round. They turn a blind eye to the venom aimed at anyone who tells the truth, preferring to believe and tell lies and support liars. I wonder if they do that outside the subject of sex?

To be fair, if people do actually believe that then they are not telling a lie, as far as they know.

They believe wrongly, though.

Thank you Nannashirlz

I see that the Women's Rights Network is urging everyone to meet, or write to, their MP because if the GRA reform bill is passed in Scotland, it will affect the whole UK.

The Scottish Parliament needs the agreement of the UK Parliament in order to pass the Bill.

Here is further info from WRN on what is needed :

www.womensrights.network/no-to-self-id

Stella Creasy appears to understand feminism but also says some women were born with a penis.
I don't get it.

No paywall on this.
archive.ph/M9pHU

Perhaps she is confused by the fact that the clitoris varies in size in diferent women, and it has erectile tissue in it (the same tissue as is in a man's penis), which expands when a woman is sexually aroused.

Seriously, though. A clitoris (aroused or otherwise) can't be compared to a penis, by any stretch of the imagination. Can it?

I'll get onto that, FN, but I doubt it will do much good. My MP appears to be captured, and whether she believes it or not she will toe the party line.

Rarely, it seems, but it is possible.

www.childrens.com/specialties-services/conditions/ambiguous-genitalia

Doodledog
She’s either proving her lack of biological knowledge
Or,
more likely she’s using the word woman 2004 style to prove how woke we should think her.
I think you’re right about the ‘party-line’. It takes braver females than she is to stand up for the truth.

Maybe someone should ask SC how she knows her children are a girl and a boy.
There was a comment (allegedly made by a Tory MP) recently to the effect that “no one should ever get between SC and the latest band wagon” ?

Billy Bragg has tweeted that believers in human biology are akin to Nazis.
twitter.com/reel_woman/status/1530859055748526080?s=12&t=eUtk4XuQEGq7kThVIaKK6Q

You're very generous Elegran. I really don't think that's what she means.

Also spotted on twitter.

grannydarkhair yes it was Stella Creasy I was referring to in my earlier post How very presumptive of her to assume her children's sex by their external genitalia. Of course she could be right but have them the wrong way round, ie she has a daughter with a penis and a son with a vulva.
SC is in a hole but doesn't know when to stop digging. I expect some of her colleagues just want her to stop tweeting, she's not doing Labour any favours.

SC got selected from an all woman shortlist that was comprised solely of female sex people. How would she feel if she'd been eliminated from that list because females with penises had filled all the slots?

Rosie51 I skim-read a lot of the posts, obviously didn’t take in what you’d said.
I honestly don’t know how she and everyone else who utters these ludicrous statements can do so with a straight face. Or bear to look at themselves in a mirror.

" n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Winston,_Baron_Winston
If you read his entry, you'll see he is better qualified on the subject than any of us posting here."

No I dont see that.

He seems an expert on on reproduction and fertiltiy issues, not transgender issues.

FarNorth

Here's a link to that Times article about Suella Braverman.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/91e2714e-dde6-11ec-bcbd-e35b52e0266c?shareToken=c1b9ffb0e9f596187a415d9ae7f97d97&fbclid=IwAR16KzgEHJ1AJQXE_6x1_2E4ib9TJSnoObUIV8oGJUvC34QNLmWtXFElBB4

It also says -
[Nadim] Zahawi is drawing up guidance for schools on how to support children with gender dysphoria with input from the attorney-general.

This month he told The Times that schools should accommodate trans children and suggested they could allow, for example, pupils born male to use girls’ lavatories and changing facilities when they are not in use by others.

I hope that Braverman is able to make Zahawi see sense.

why is that bad?

I agree with supporting children who have gender dysphoria and the example seems reasonable.