Our bloated NHS - it’s beyond ridiculous now.

icanhandthemback

*Glorianny*, I am well aware of the difference between my Dr being contracted to the NHS and the Hospital Trusts. However, my Hospital in Hampshire cannot read my records from my Hospital in West Sussex...that is recent too. There is nothing "National" about our NHS, it is a complete misnomer.

That's interesting but may not be true. I know someone who works as a consultant in the NHS when she wanted records for personal treatment transferred from one hospital to another she was told it couldn't be done. She then explained exactly how it could be done and who she was and it was done very quickly. I fully acknowledge that there are people working for the NHS who seem to think part of their job is to make it as mystical and incomprehensible to the patient as possible but get someone on the case who they respect and it is amazing how things change.

Urmstongran

DaisyAnne

Urmstongran

Just read the article in the link you posted growstuff.

About the authors
Prof. Ian Kirkpatrick is professor of public management at the University of York.

Prof. Becky Malby is professor of health systems innovation at London South Bank University.

?? My underlining.
They obviously think more managers are a good idea!

It would be interesting to read what the hospital consultants and nurses think on the subject.

Sometimes you write the weirdest posts Urmstongran. So both the people writing the report were experts in the field of the report.

What do you want them to be experts in - goat keeping?

Haha! What I was trying to convey is that these 2 authors are not unbiased in their appreciation in the art of promulgating more managers. It’s in their interests after all. They’re not going to say ‘whoa, now hold on - perhaps this has been over promoted these last few years’ are they?

Do you think they lied about their statistics?

Why is it in more managers? It doesn't matter to them how many managers there are. They're not NHS managers and don't even work for the NHS.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Anecdotal evidence from reliable and known sources is fact Lido. Do you think these posters have been making up their tales of woe?

And the RHS? Isn’t that the organisation where memberships have been ditched pretty robustly lately due to perceived ‘wokeness’? It was in many newspapers a few months ago. All to do with ‘diversity’? I rest my case.

DaisyAnne

Urmstongran

Just read the article in the link you posted growstuff.

About the authors
Prof. Ian Kirkpatrick is professor of public management at the University of York.

Prof. Becky Malby is professor of health systems innovation at London South Bank University.

?? My underlining.
They obviously think more managers are a good idea!

It would be interesting to read what the hospital consultants and nurses think on the subject.

Sometimes you write the weirdest posts Urmstongran. So both the people writing the report were experts in the field of the report.

What do you want them to be experts in - goat keeping?

Haha! What I was trying to convey is that these 2 authors are not unbiased in their appreciation in the art of promulgating more managers. It’s in their interests after all. They’re not going to say ‘whoa, now hold on - perhaps this has been over promoted these last few years’ are they?

Urmstongran

My politeness goes some way to making up for my lack of intellect though I think.

You think so?

Now, I really need to take my own advice.

Urmstongran

Just read the article in the link you posted growstuff.

About the authors
Prof. Ian Kirkpatrick is professor of public management at the University of York.

Prof. Becky Malby is professor of health systems innovation at London South Bank University.

?? My underlining.
They obviously think more managers are a good idea!

It would be interesting to read what the hospital consultants and nurses think on the subject.

Sometimes you write the weirdest posts Urmstongran. So both the people writing the report were experts in the field of the report.

What do you want them to be experts in - goat keeping?

I was a gardener before I retired and I have never been a manager in the NHS. The RHS perhaps, but never the NHS.

In my initial posts I merely gave facts which contradicted your quote from The Telegraph.

Anecdotal poor outcomes are just that. They are not fact.

My career experience and a lifetime of study in the field demonstrates measurably that HR involvement does generate the result the business desires.

We will have to disagree Urmstongran and I wish I had followed Casdon's advice a few posts back but I hoped I might be able to invite you to open your mind a little.

was employed across a wide range of sectors
?

Bet there were occasions in all those years.

My politeness goes some way to making up for my lack of intellect though I think.

Firstly - Lido has never said she worked for the NHS.

Second, - thinking HR is "admin and clerical" just shows us what you really know.

Like Mr Johnson, you're not so hot on the detail.

Ah. I’ve touched a nerve it seems Lido. When I asked at the start of the thread if you were an NHS manager (you seemed so very keen on them) yet you told me you were a gardener ‘just interested in data/facts’ (I think - I haven’t scrolled back). Now you reveal yourself more fully.

Look - You & I both have worked in admin & clerical within the NHS for a great many years. I’m sure we’d like to see the best people in place for the job.

Yet surely, as you’ve also read a lot of anecdotal poor outcomes on this thread, you can agree by some smidgeon that the vast involvement by HR nowadays doesn’t particularly generate the desired, well intentioned, end result.

Perhaps we just have to courteously agree to disagree on the methodology (and vast expense)?

This is a fascinating article showing how the NHS were using diversity to recruit and training to engage in the 1950s. None of this is new.

www.nursingtimes.net/news/history-of-nursing/a-history-of-nursing-in-britain-the-1950s-26-08-2021/

I worked in HR and people management for 30 years before I retired and retrained as a gardener.

For the last 20 years of my HR career I worked as a consultant devising programmes to ensure organisation success, savings and where appropriate, profit. I did this based entirely on the factors I have listed above. I was employed across a wide range of sectors. In every single case staff satisfaction, ease of recruitment, productivity, customer satisfaction and the bottom line improved. Reticent director, managers and employees were won over as they saw results from the methods you dismiss.

My job was to ensure the organisation could attract the most able and suited employees, ensure they knew exactly what their job was and how to deliver the task in hand with passion and care.

Good employees only occur by accident using the Bingo and Uniform method.

We are on the same page - you just don't know how to achieve the outcome you want. I do and so do the NHS and their diversity managers.

Urmstongran

Probably sorts out the time wasters sodapop. I read an article a few months ago about some regulars with mental health issues who frequently ring 999. They were well known to the call handlers.

MadeInYorkshire I am so sorry to hear about your daughter. What a distressing situation for you all. There is still a mountain to climb when it comes to supporting people with mental health issues as you know.

Glorianny, I am well aware of the difference between my Dr being contracted to the NHS and the Hospital Trusts. However, my Hospital in Hampshire cannot read my records from my Hospital in West Sussex...that is recent too. There is nothing "National" about our NHS, it is a complete misnomer.

But here’s the rub Lido. After all this diversity & inclusivity and monitoring and engaging - things aren’t any better.

Kindness, civility and yes - actually caring about the patients you are in contact with, works. I know this much is true.

The NHS
One point that has hardly been touched on is that Health is devolved as is social care.

Goodness I must be improving. I’ve gone up from ‘utter tripe’ to ‘arrant nonsense’. All in one day too!

*That’s what used to happen, pretty much Lido.
Seems okay to me now too.

Why is everything so bluddy complicated (and expensive) nowadays? *

Because nowadays we want to do things better.
Because we want to treat people fairly nowadays.
Because we realise that hasn't always been the case.
Because we've learned from our mistakes and evolved.

Nope. I’ve read over the last few posts and I’m not buying it.

volver

Because Lido has clearly explained the role and importance of a Diversity Officer and you have completely dismissed it and tried to say you know better based on no knowledge at all. On top of that you have dismissed serious research because it was written by people whose credentials you disparage because they are not doctors or nurses so you think they don't know what they are talking about.

You are not credible. Like MaizieD, I'm not playing any more.

That should be a future stance for all of us with a modicum (or more) of integrity. Arrant nonsense original posts should warrant a zero response.

Attraction, selection, recruitment, appointment, induction, training, motivation, engagement, measurement, development, succession planning, reward.......I could go on

Please don’t.
It’s depressing me.

What about ‘advert, check cv, offer interview, select candidate, start work’?

I don’t care if I’m treated by someone who is purple with yellow spots.

But the NHS does. They want the right person for the job, with the skills and qualification necessary....and if the person who can or will do the job is purple with yellow spots then the NHS want to make sure they can attract, engage with, motivate and treat that person fairly and well or you and others won't be getting treated.

Because Lido has clearly explained the role and importance of a Diversity Officer and you have completely dismissed it and tried to say you know better based on no knowledge at all. On top of that you have dismissed serious research because it was written by people whose credentials you disparage because they are not doctors or nurses so you think they don't know what they are talking about.

You are not credible. Like MaizieD, I'm not playing any more.