Our bloated NHS - it’s beyond ridiculous now.

But talking about the problem as is now as a discrete problem, separate from politics, is bo**ocks. This is deliberate Tory decimation of the NHS.

Other than getting them out of power, it isn't going to change. It is their policy. They're not going to be deflected from it.

Moving on to say 'Oh but I could never vote for insert any other party leaders name here is just an excuse.

If you want an NHS don't vote for a party devoted to getting rid of it in each and any way possible.

I am a Health care professional in Cardiology and yes more Managers are needed.
You still have to run the Hospital. I'm taking Bands 8-9 and below, those managers on the ground,

You have clinical Managers who run large Depts. eg.. Diagnostic imaging, Path services, Vascular, Cardiology to name a few. They are not stilling around reaping massive salaries, they work hard.
They understand the importance of correct staff to demand level, skill mix, often jump in to support when short staff.
Overall Service Mangers for example Medicine ensure all the areas that make up that service, function with enough resources, they take away the mundane issues that can arise.

Doctors and Nurses have to work under their Clinical Director, or Modern Matron who represent the teams they oversee. They are managers too.

I can see that hospitals and schools need to be able to take on temporary staff so why not have a temp agency in house as part of the service?

varian

So what was wrong there GG13 was outsourcing to a private agency, rather than hiring directly by the NHS

It was a Labour Government at the time I temped for the NHS

GrannyGravy13

GagaJo

Let's be honest.

Corbyn stood up in debate with Johnson on TV and said the Conservatives would sell off the NHS. Cummings is recorded on video saying the Conservatives want to get rid of the NHS.

They're breaking the NHS down.

If you voted Tory, you've voted to end the NHS. Brutally frank. To get Brexit, you agreed to the demise of the NHS.

Why complain now? You voted for it. (I know not everyone on this thread voted Tory btw - but some of those slagging the NHS off did.)

Gagajo nobody is slagging the NHS

Some of us, myself included do not think that throwing money at it without a plan is pointless.

When I needed a job quickly I secured a 2 week temporary position in a very large University Teaching Hospital, I ended up staying for 6 months, earning 3 times what the other girls where earning for doing exactly the same thing, utterly ridiculous in hindsight. The agency and myself were quids in, cannot say the same for the hospital.

But have you asked why this happens GrannyGravy13 ? One of the reasons is that appointing full time permanent staff ties the Trust into a number of costly provisions which agency staff don't get. An agency worker may be paid more than the permanent staff but they can cost less in the long run.

Urmstongran

I voted for Brexit. I did NOT vote for the demise of the NHS. I worked in the first NHS hospital in the country. Park Hospital (as was in 1948 when Nye Bevan visited).

We’ve lost the plot nowadays. Hospital Trusts actually compete with one another for ‘customers’ or consumers. What was wrong with calling them patients? The Trusts get given (more) money accordingly I suppose.

But we knew this was on the cards. It's what the Tories stand for.

Perhaps less worrying about people with the need for translators (aka foreigners or immigrants) and more worrying about the state of the country we exist in would have resulted in wiser voting.

GG13, exactly the same applies in private hospitals. Regular staff earn a lot less than agency staff (I used to be responsible for contacting the agencies for nurses). Teachers too (I'm inundated by a minimum of 30 supply teacher placements daily).

Come to think of it, education is in a huge mess too. Funny how everything the rich don't use is a mess, isn't it? No problems in private healthcare or private ed.

So what was wrong there GG13 was outsourcing to a private agency, rather than hiring directly by the NHS

I voted for Brexit. I did NOT vote for the demise of the NHS. I worked in the first NHS hospital in the country. Park Hospital (as was in 1948 when Nye Bevan visited).

We’ve lost the plot nowadays. Hospital Trusts actually compete with one another for ‘customers’ or consumers. What was wrong with calling them patients? The Trusts get given (more) money accordingly I suppose.

Oops do think, not do not think.

GagaJo

Let's be honest.

Corbyn stood up in debate with Johnson on TV and said the Conservatives would sell off the NHS. Cummings is recorded on video saying the Conservatives want to get rid of the NHS.

They're breaking the NHS down.

If you voted Tory, you've voted to end the NHS. Brutally frank. To get Brexit, you agreed to the demise of the NHS.

Why complain now? You voted for it. (I know not everyone on this thread voted Tory btw - but some of those slagging the NHS off did.)

Gagajo nobody is slagging the NHS

Some of us, myself included do not think that throwing money at it without a plan is pointless.

When I needed a job quickly I secured a 2 week temporary position in a very large University Teaching Hospital, I ended up staying for 6 months, earning 3 times what the other girls where earning for doing exactly the same thing, utterly ridiculous in hindsight. The agency and myself were quids in, cannot say the same for the hospital.

Just read the article in the link you posted growstuff.

About the authors
Prof. Ian Kirkpatrick is professor of public management at the University of York.

Prof. Becky Malby is professor of health systems innovation at London South Bank University.

?? My underlining.
They obviously think more managers are a good idea!

It would be interesting to read what the hospital consultants and nurses think on the subject.

Let's be honest.

Corbyn stood up in debate with Johnson on TV and said the Conservatives would sell off the NHS. Cummings is recorded on video saying the Conservatives want to get rid of the NHS.

They're breaking the NHS down.

If you voted Tory, you've voted to end the NHS. Brutally frank. To get Brexit, you agreed to the demise of the NHS.

Why complain now? You voted for it. (I know not everyone on this thread voted Tory btw - but some of those slagging the NHS off did.)

icanhandthemback

As I spent the evening with yet another ambulance crew who couldn't take my mother to hospital because there were not enough beds, we discussed the state of the NHS because my last urgent call to the ambulance service did not end with an ambulance arriving even though I waited up all night for it. Eventually the fire service friends of my husband arrived to lift my Mum up off the floor and get her into bed until the Community Nurse could get there.
Anyway, the crew said that there was plenty of money in the NHS but it was poorly spent. Millions go on poorly thought out software, bad decisions about equipment and vehicles were amongst their complaints. They said some of the decisions were made by managers who were operational years ago are based on what they used to do despite lengthy consultations with current operational staff and this just doesn't work efficiently. They are in despair. This is not the first time I have had this sort of discussion with NHS staff. One of my friends is Community Nurse who has been given a Queen's Nursing Medal and after 39 years of giving her all she has had enough. She has had to reapply for her job so many times for restructures, has seen the waste of money whilst her staff are worked to death and sits in meeting after meeting telling the managers that actually their new ideas have been tried and failed before. They won't listen to the feet on the ground or experienced staff.
It isn't a National Health Service either. Each Trust uses different IT systems so can't liaise. If you live on the Border you can be sent to a different Trust to where you live. They will set up all sorts of "help" from bought in services so you can be discharged safely only to find when you get home, you get a call to say that they can't do the things they thought they could do because you live 2 yards over the border. Consequently they have wasted hours of time for several members of staff to organise stuff you can't have. It is a joke.

This really is a lot of out of date and unsupported hearsay.
There are now two organisations dealing with technology in the NHS. NHS Digital digital.nhs.uk/
and NHSX now changing to this www.nhsx.nhs.uk/blogs/2020-year-health-technology/
Most primary health care providers use Systm one en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SystmOne

It is a fast and quickly changing area that has seen huge changes developed to deal with Covid.
How many of us now have the NHS App?
Is it perfect? of course not. But imagining any ambulance staff or nurse is an expert is a bit ridiculous.

... the NHS is possibly “one of the most undermanaged organisations on the planet.” ...

www.nhsconfed.org/long-reads/nhs-overmanaged

Why extreme right? I don’t think I’m extreme in any of my views.

Thank you DaisyAnne I’d better start sharpening my pitchfork in case I’m besieged by marauding gransnetters.

BeEmerald

I’m a long way from being far right. The problem as I see it today is we don’t have any left wing political parties at all. Labour under Starmer is another disguised Tory party and there are no socialist alternatives. We need a new radical political party in this country, or a revival of communism. Not the perverted version of it we’ve seen in Russia,China and other states but a real functioning ethical version of it.

Those who aid the destruction of the NHS BeEmerald, whatever they think they are doing, are aiding a government that was taken over by the far-right when Johnson came to power. That government has every intention to bring those whose income is from work, or have earned their retirement by working down to a serf-like level.

Urmstongran always supports the extreme right and now you say you want Communism. Of course, you agree with one another. All extremes meet and have the same intention eventually - power.

What would happen to you (and many GN members at a guess) if the population rose up in an attempt to stop these extremes?

Urmstongran

Who is reporting?? Not me... never have, never would. GNHQ will know this about me.

I agree, I am for leaving all posts up to be seen.

I appreciate that if they are libellous they have to be removed though.

We were Ug. It was a life-threatening condition, we took her to our local A and E and after scans she was blue-lighted to a university hospital and operated on at 1 am. Five days in hospital, then ten days of care from our lovely district nurses.
We were very grateful.

Who is reporting?? Not me... never have, never would. GNHQ will know this about me.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Quotes deleted post

Urmstongran

^The NHS is short of money^
Really MaizeD? Short or just ill-targeted? What about the inclusiveness and diversity managers? How do they heal the sick?

Nope. I'm not playing any more.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Lido

*I read the link from volver concerning translators.*

So one of many pieces of information and data provided. Your response to my posts including data early on was to ask if I was an NHS manager. That's not a debate is it?

I apologise about that Lido. Truly.
I was just being witty ut it must have come across as flippant. Sorry.