Our bloated NHS - it’s beyond ridiculous now.

Some European countries have a 20 euro charge for a doctor appointment
My point was without the NHS, a consultant, specialist nurse, they’re admin and pharmacy support, the occupational therapists, physios and more, all free to me, I couldn’t have co to yes to work,pay taxes, contribute to society. My consultant doesn’t operate in a vacuum, there’s a support team around her.
Medical care is expensive - most of us are happy to pay more than we currently do. Except I wouldn’t be sure this government woukd invest any increased contributions effectively

Urmstongran

If we don't get back to how things were done in the 50s and 60s the NHS is doomed to going from bad to worse, not despite the the amount of money thrown at it but BECAUSE of the amount of money thrown at it so the NHS can continue wasting it.

If we went back to the way things were done in the 50s and 60s, I'd be dead and I would imagine quite a few GNers would be too. I guess the bright side for those who don't like funding th NHS, would be I would have died from a heart attack five years ago, so wouldn't need to be treated for cancer now.

B9exchange

Useful link showing that no-one is actually running the NHS
www.myhsn.co.uk/top-tip/who-runs-the-nhs

AdamSmith report on quangos www.adamsmith.org/blog/the-department-of-health-an-overview-of-its-quangos

2.1 billion has been allocated for spending on NHS IT, which always involves expensive consultancy contracts with firms like KPMG

I still shudder at the advertisement for a local '5 a day Manager' back in 2005 at a salary of £35k even then. Sole role, to tell the local population to eat 5 portions of fruit and vegetables a day.

NHS IT has also allocated funding for upgrading GP virtual and video facilities to enable remote consultations. Thank yo, Policy Exchange (and others), who are pushing for this kind of move.

Should we have a thread on who would be dead if its wasn't for the modern, free-at-point-of-use NHS?

I'll start...

Parsley3

Are people with mental health issues to be called time wasters? First step on the road to blaming people for their ill health.

They're already in that category according to some people.

volver

Should we have a thread on who would be dead if its wasn't for the modern, free-at-point-of-use NHS?

I'll start...

Is this going to be a meeting of ghosts?

My first child would probably have been born dead or severely disabled too.

I used to be in and out of hospital in the 60s and the difference was the amount of nurses. Then there would have been a ward sister and 3 or 4 nurses.
When I was last in hospital about 8 years ago there was one nurse and one HCA. They were impossibly busy so I am annoyed by the criticism of nurses when it is the fault of government.

Iam64

I’m sitting in the waiting room at Manchester’s Christie hospital, our centre of excellence for the treatment of cancer.
It’s a wonder to see the staff and system working so well

The comments here comparing stand up meetings in the private sector (good) with wasteful gossip meetings in the (bad) public centre are based on ideological belief systems, someone’s friend who was a switchboard operator cum expert on everything

Reading the nonsensical criticisms sitting here confirms I do not and never will accept criticism of the nhs or other public services, made by people who vote in the tories who continue to destroy and devastate rather than reform and support

I've spent quite a few hours sitting in a cancer unit too over the last couple of weeks and my experience is the same. Busy, caring people, who have been efficient and answered all my questions. Most of them weren't doctors or nurses. A receptionist took some medical details, tested my liver function and helped me get ready for an MRI scan. A counsellor spent time with me answering questions about how my treatment would affect me. A radiographer supervised the MRI scan. A researcher explained the trial I'll be undergoing. There was one consultant and a nurse.

Urmstongran

If we don't get back to how things were done in the 50s and 60s the NHS is doomed to going from bad to worse, not despite the the amount of money thrown at it but BECAUSE of the amount of money thrown at it so the NHS can continue wasting it.

nonsense

AGAA4

I used to be in and out of hospital in the 60s and the difference was the amount of nurses. Then there would have been a ward sister and 3 or 4 nurses.
When I was last in hospital about 8 years ago there was one nurse and one HCA. They were impossibly busy so I am annoyed by the criticism of nurses when it is the fault of government.

And the discharge times. When I had my tonsils out in the early 70s, I had to stay in hospital for five days. These days, it's a day procedure.

Fund it properly - other European countries do - definitely Iam64.

As long as people continue to think of the NHS as some sort of national religion, we're in trouble. Many like to think the NHS is the envy of the world, but it's not. It's a dilapidated and ramshackle embarrassment to a supposedly developed country. Pumping money in won't fix it. The whole model needs changing.

That doesn't mean a US-style system; European nations do it differently and have better health outcomes than we do. We should learn from them. If a new country was setting up a healthcare system, would it want to copy the NHS? I doubt it very much.

I do not and never will accept criticism of the nhs or other public services, made by people who vote in the tories who continue to destroy and devastate rather than reform and support. Well said Iam64, hope all goes well for you at the hospital.

Maybe you'd like to explain what you mean. Other advanced countries spend far more per head on health than the UK does.

I don’t really know what I mean growstuff. I’m not intelligent enough. All I know is this system isn’t working for some people. A&E wait times, ambulances parked up outside hospitals with patients waiting to be assessed, my friend who suffered a brain attack (also known as a stroke) and her husband frantically waiting 70 minutes for an ambulance to arrive - she has no speech 4 weeks later and is in a bad way.

I don’t know the answer but surely somebody does? Anybody?

I don’t really know what I mean growstuff. I’m not intelligent enough.

Urmstongran

I don’t really know what I mean growstuff. I’m not intelligent enough. All I know is this system isn’t working for some people. A&E wait times, ambulances parked up outside hospitals with patients waiting to be assessed, my friend who suffered a brain attack (also known as a stroke) and her husband frantically waiting 70 minutes for an ambulance to arrive - she has no speech 4 weeks later and is in a bad way.

I don’t know the answer but surely somebody does? Anybody?

Yes. Invest in more ambulance drivers and staff. I expect they'll want to be paid.

Iam64

I’m sitting in the waiting room at Manchester’s Christie hospital, our centre of excellence for the treatment of cancer.
It’s a wonder to see the staff and system working so well

The comments here comparing stand up meetings in the private sector (good) with wasteful gossip meetings in the (bad) public centre are based on ideological belief systems, someone’s friend who was a switchboard operator cum expert on everything

Reading the nonsensical criticisms sitting here confirms I do not and never will accept criticism of the nhs or other public services, made by people who vote in the tories who continue to destroy and devastate rather than reform and support

My local cancer unit is fantastic. Every single member of staff delightful, kind and efficient. I have access to reflexology, yoga classes, exercise class, counselling, macmillan nurse etc.

Like education there are problems as I fear must be inevitable with mammoth organisations. However constant cuts, government interference etc underfunding…don’t help !, but heaven preserve us from privatisation and a USA style system.

P.S. I also knew instantly the OP identity ?

Ah DaisyAnne I can assure you that any stick I got hold of at the wrong end wasn’t intentional. It’ll be because I can’t see that well as my cataracts aren’t deemed bad enough to operate on, although if I pay privately suddenly and miraculously they definitely need removing urgently

Exasperating isn’t it BeEmerald? Possibly the same surgeons too. But working under different management guidelines. Years ago people were told cataracts had to be ‘ripe’ enough for surgery. A fallacy according to my optometrist.

I would never criticise the NHS. My goodness we owe them so much. My husband's care during treatment for cancer was outstanding. When my young nephew had leukemia they did their best although unfortunately he didn't make it. A couple of months ago my brother had a severe stroke, followed by a heart attack. Thanks to the NHS he is virtually his old self.
I believe it's the management that needs sorting out. Too many layers. It's just my opinion obviously.

Urmstongran

Exasperating isn’t it BeEmerald? Possibly the same surgeons too. But working under different management guidelines. Years ago people were told cataracts had to be ‘ripe’ enough for surgery. A fallacy according to my optometrist.

Techniques have advanced, all those staff in the NHS who are not "doctors or nurses" have been doing research on treatment for cataracts you know. The big problem now is having the funding to do it, but people will keep voting in a party who are slowly privatising the NHS.

BeEmerald

Ah DaisyAnne I can assure you that any stick I got hold of at the wrong end wasn’t intentional. It’ll be because I can’t see that well as my cataracts aren’t deemed bad enough to operate on, although if I pay privately suddenly and miraculously they definitely need removing urgently

So your choice is wait - not great I'm sure - or go privately. It that seems a better solution then why not do that?

I know virtually nothing about the NHS but I know about running organisations.

In my experience, its the middle management who make the place work. The guys at the top getting the big bucks set the tone, and the guys at the coalface doing what the public see as "work" do work very hard to just keep standing still.

But the people who actually make the place run on a day to day basis are the middle managers. The people who actually try to get enough people on every shift are the middle managers. The people who are responsible for the effective definition and implementation of new processes and new equipment are middle managers.

There is a myth put about that it can only be a good thing to get rid of middle managers. Whereas in fact, getting rid of middle managers is what makes the system fall apart.

Purely anecdotal, (the same as everyone else who is talking about their own or a family members wxperience) but my girls care left a whole lot to be desired.