Our bloated NHS - it’s beyond ridiculous now.

Useful link showing that no-one is actually running the NHS
www.myhsn.co.uk/top-tip/who-runs-the-nhs

AdamSmith report on quangos www.adamsmith.org/blog/the-department-of-health-an-overview-of-its-quangos

2.1 billion has been allocated for spending on NHS IT, which always involves expensive consultancy contracts with firms like KPMG

I still shudder at the advertisement for a local '5 a day Manager' back in 2005 at a salary of £35k even then. Sole role, to tell the local population to eat 5 portions of fruit and vegetables a day.

Oh, and Hunt, who is obviously making a bid for leadership, was Health Secretary when Operation Cygnet was run. This found that we were not ready for an epidemic in terms of PPE, ITU beds, health precautions etc., so it was quietly shelved and sent off to the 'too hard' department. I did not know he was related to the Bottomleys.

As a former worker in the private sector, I can confirm that we did indeed have stand-up meetings. Almost daily. We also had interminable meetings in conference rooms that went on all day. Even two or three days, with hotel stays and pizzas brought in.

If someone is imparting important information or planning how the organisation will work, would you rather have them leaning against a wall for 10 minutes or actually sitting down with the information they need in front of them?

It boils my blood when people say they have to go to meetings about “nothing at all”. Perhaps if they were paying attention they’d find out what they are about. Or if they told their manager that they had got nothing out of the meeting, then that would help in the future. But far easier to complain to people who can do nothing about it, or on Social Media, isn’t it?

Are people with mental health issues to be called time wasters? First step on the road to blaming people for their ill health.

HousePlantQueen

I am tired. Tired of trying to debate with people who churn out cut and paste from the right wing press, or use the story of their next door neighbour's niece's cousin who once worked in a hospital and is now the expert on how they should be run. Too many people on here doing the Johnson government's work for them,spinning stories about bloated civil service departments, NHS staff who are somehow not contributing to the efficient running of the service. If I wanted to read a load of right wing crap and be lied to I would read the Daily Mail or Telegraph.

Just wanted to quote this so people could read it again, that's all really.

And make the point that some of us won't shut up and move on while the country is being ruined by the right wing and people who don't know what they are talking about.

Whitewavemark2

This government are past masters at blaming others.

One day the population will wake up and understand that everything has happened under the Tory watch.

Mismanagement and underfunding on an industrial scale.

When the took over in 2010 the NHS was in the best shape it had been in decades.

Now look at it.

Agreed, in 2010 it was actually good! 4 hour waits in A&E and 18 weeks from GP to treatment to home - my local hospital though was telling porkies to the Govt with it's KPI stats and I caught them out, as my op would have been 32 weeks - wrote to the CEO and got a call the following week saying that the Consultant would be coming in on his golfing day to do me and one other patient specially, and so it was done, just like that! Now with no targets, no staff, the primary care system in a mess (other than my GP surgery who if I called now would see me this afternoon if required, face to face) but the other GP surgery in my town never has any appointments, but the waiting room is always empty, so who they see is anyone's guess? Since my good experiences pre 2010 I avoid hospitals like the plague - I have PTSD from one visit - they left me literally screaming for hours, in the corridor as though they didn't believe me something was wrong, without adequate pain relief - I do not even go near the place unless I am desperate, but that day I had no choice, the morphine I actually have at home wasn't touching the pain so something was badly amiss. It turned out my bowel was actually dying and I needed life saving surgery that day, but that took them hours to determine such. I HATE the place! Being a nurse doesn't help as I know too much and expect the sort of care I had to give when I was nursing but you don't get anywhere near it nowadays sadly ......

I take offence at your last sentence MadeinYorkshire as I’m sure the majority of nursing staff working there socks off would too.
My friend is a nurse on an oncology ward. 12 hours is the normal shift time and then constantly getting calls to see if they can come in to cover staff shortages etc. and doing admin in her own time.I know she gives her all for her patients. Is it any wonder morale and recruitment is at such a low working under such conditions?

volver

Somehow, I just knew who had started this thread.

No pictures Urmstongran?

BTW - Telegraph.

Perhaps we could have some clarification on plagiarism. Firstly, for GN's protection as the publisher and then for those of us reading such posts.

This post seems to be direct from an article in the Telegraph. It doesn't seem accedental and is a large amount to copy, presumably without the papers consent. Do GN rules allow us to get into the realm of copyright infringment?

By its presentation, this article appears as the OP's thinking. With what we know about the internet, we should be informed where, these sometimes very politically biased posts, originate. This OP is neither attributed nor "quoted".

MadeinYorkshire I don’t take offence at your statement. There are good and bad in every profession but the general standard of nursing care isn’t a patch on what it was. I know of two nurses still working who are alcoholics but deal with patients and one who uses recreational drugs along with her nursing friends at weekends. When one was drug tested they got round it by using someone else’s urine sample.
Not quite how it used to be.

Oh good. Now we're blaming and accusing nurses.

It just gets better and better.

I agree DaisyAnne. When large chunks are posted straight from a newspaper, they should not be presented as being written by the poster, even if they do agree with the sentiment. Chunks of Tory propaganda journalistic opinion should be identified as such and the source quoted, not just for clarity, but also for copyright. This applies, of course, to all political opinions, but it has to be acknowledged that the more outrageous and easily disproved comments are usually cut and pasted from the same predictable right wing newspapers.

If your scurrilous accusations are true Beemerald, can we assume that in the cause of patient safety you have reported said alcohol dependent nurses to their local hospital? After all, we all know the hospitals are full of clerical staff who do nothing more than bother themselves with ethnicity quotas and such, no real work as we know it.

Urmstongran

Too many managers. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. I don’t suppose our doctors and nurses are happy but I bet the administrators are delighted. Big fat salaries. Huge index linked pensions. So many ‘tick boxes’ - diversity, inclusion, well-being courses - plus ‘targets’ whereby the top managers get a bonus for delivering them (on top of their well remunerative posts). Surely that’s part & parcel of their remit anyway?

The figures you put forward do not tell us there are too many managers. You are writing as if it is your research and writing . Therefore, you should be able to tell us the figures of what proportion of NHS staff are medically trained (not just doctors and nurses) and what proportion are in each and any of the other jobs required to run the NHS. How many of each work part-time or is your analysis using full-time equivalence?

This OP is a political piece and tells us little or nothing about what it purports to be a "truth" and many will be unable to read the original stolen document. However, you have acheived what you wanted. You got a far-right headline and apparent backing for privatising the NHS.

I’m sitting in the waiting room at Manchester’s Christie hospital, our centre of excellence for the treatment of cancer.
It’s a wonder to see the staff and system working so well

The comments here comparing stand up meetings in the private sector (good) with wasteful gossip meetings in the (bad) public centre are based on ideological belief systems, someone’s friend who was a switchboard operator cum expert on everything

Reading the nonsensical criticisms sitting here confirms I do not and never will accept criticism of the nhs or other public services, made by people who vote in the tories who continue to destroy and devastate rather than reform and support

Could those who are making so many criticisms of a system which provides decent health care for everyone, regardless of their financial status, explain exactly what they want to replace the system they find so unacceptable with?

I think one of the problems is that we have come just to accept that treatment is always available. We don't appreciate what we have. One of the most heartbreaking scenes in Unsheltered is the wait in a hospital for the diabetic who has bleeding wounds on their feet while the admin staff decide if the health insurance covers his treatment. (it doesn't)

You may have to wait in this country but you don't get sent away because you don't have the right paperwork. At the coal face the NHS works.

Maybe some credit should be given to Laura Donnelly, who actually wrote the words in the OP.
I can’t see anything about plagiarism on the Gransnet guidelines, so maybe it’s acceptable?
I do accept that not everyone will have an understanding of copyright, or how to acknowledge another’s original work.

Here here Iam64. Or is that hear hear, either way I am with you.

J52

Maybe some credit should be given to Laura Donnelly, who actually wrote the words in the OP.
I can’t see anything about plagiarism on the Gransnet guidelines, so maybe it’s acceptable?
I do accept that not everyone will have an understanding of copyright, or how to acknowledge another’s original work.

That is a kind post J52 but I am sure Urmstongran has been here long enough to see quoted pieces in quotes or italics and something lik [source: Daily Telegraph] or a link at the end of a piece.

I would be suprised if GN, as publisher, was not aware of copyright.

I’m sure GN are aware of copyright considering posts from Gransnet and Mumsnet are hoovered up to appear in tabloids. And users sign away their copyright to use the site

If we don't get back to how things were done in the 50s and 60s the NHS is doomed to going from bad to worse, not despite the the amount of money thrown at it but BECAUSE of the amount of money thrown at it so the NHS can continue wasting it.

I tried to buy private health cover aged 42 when I moved into the private/charity sector so losing my local authority terms and conditions. Because I’d a diagnosis of inflammatory arthritis, no one would insure me. Luckily I remained well snd later a change in employment had me secure again
The treatment fir RA is expensive but I worked full time to 62 and 11 years on I’m still
Mobile and have no care needs. Without the nhS I’d probably be severely disabled. Fund it properly - other European countries do

Iam64

I tried to buy private health cover aged 42 when I moved into the private/charity sector so losing my local authority terms and conditions. Because I’d a diagnosis of inflammatory arthritis, no one would insure me. Luckily I remained well snd later a change in employment had me secure again
The treatment fir RA is expensive but I worked full time to 62 and 11 years on I’m still
Mobile and have no care needs. Without the nhS I’d probably be severely disabled. Fund it properly - other European countries do

Some European Countries have a requirement for you to have a top up health insurance policy.

We have lots of EU residents here so I'm sure that they will be able to add more than I can.

When I lived in France we had "private medical insurance" provided by our employer. It was in no way equivalent to the kind of medical insurance offered here by BUPA and the like. It was the way that the system was funded, not one health system for the people with money and another for the people who didn't.

BeEmerald

I’m sure GN are aware of copyright considering posts from Gransnet and Mumsnet are hoovered up to appear in tabloids. And users sign away their copyright to use the site

I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick BeEmerald - possibly deliberately?

I assure you that if anyone stole what I had written or designed, I would sue them if I was in a position to do so. I imagine the Telegraph has that sort of money.

This thread has made me wonder how staff are actually categorised. Many medical staff also have a management role. Could this confuse the stats? Thinking back to my own experience pre retirement I worked in a clinical role in a department of 80+. Our service head was the only staff member not to work clinically. Her deputy, myself and four others had management responsibility for other staff for less than 10% of our working week. I’m wondering now how my post was counted - the Jon title and grade may automatically have ticked the management box when in fact this was a very minor part of my responsibility, I was a clinician. It never occurred to me to check, too late now.