I think flat faced dogs should be banned

I suppose that ought to have gone under pets really, but it is on the news about pugs.

Me too.
It stores up a whole heap of serious health problems for them.
I think breeding any dogs into unnatural aberrations should be banned.
It's all for people's egos.

Yes. I know a little French bulldog and he visibly (and audibly) struggles to breathe.
I don’t even think that the owners realise that it’s not normal

Couldn’t agree more. Next door but one have two miniature French bulldogs. If you see them out you can hear them snuffling and snorting before you see them. Pekingese/ Pugs/ bulldogs and suchlike have been exploited by greedy breeders.
Mind you I’m not a fan of these crossover breeds either - you just get double the known breed faults. They may look lovely but apart from costing a fortune for what at one time would have been classed as a mongrel, they cost the owners more with inherited illnesses.

I like dog shaped dogs.

My daughter has a French Bulldog. They are a ridiculous breed, and the dog has had numerous problems since he was a puppy. My daughter adores him (as do I) and he couldn't be more loved or better cared for, but we both agree that there should be better enforced regulations when it comes to breeding, to breed out the problems with breathing and digestion, and it should be illegal to own one without comprehensive medical insurance.

Oscar is genuinely the best-natured dog I have known (and we've had some lovely dogs over the years), and I'm not a fan of banning things, but it's not fair to put them through the operations and treatments that most of them will need, or to let them go without treatment because their owners can't afford the expensive vet bills.

It should be illegal to own them, full stop.
Never mind insurance, what about quality of life for the dog?

I totally agree and they should not be a,lowed to mess with breeds because all the messed about ones have health problems
But yes flat faced dogs should be banned it’s cruel and unnecessary

MissAdventure

It should be illegal to own them, full stop.
Never mind insurance, what about quality of life for the dog?

And what would you do with the existing dogs if it were illegal to own them?

Insurance is not the solution, but at least the dogs would be protected until the breathing problems could be bred out. A surprising number of owners don't have insurance and the dogs have to be destroyed or live with the conditions.

It's not just brachycephalic dogs that have problems. Since dogs have had to be chipped, and people can be fined for letting them roam, there are far fewer 'mongrels' - pretty much all pet dogs are pedigree now, so problems are bred into them. I agree that Frenchies are at the top of the scale for problems, but spaniels, labradors and many other breeds have issues too. I'm not sure what the answer is, as it's unlikely that we will go back to the days of seeing dogs wandering the streets to 'meet' other ones and produce the crossbreeds that used to represent most family pets. They just don't exist in any numbers now. Rescue centres make it so difficult to get dogs, too, and not everyone is able to take on a dog with problems caused by previous owners. It's a mess, really.

I completely agree. We have a neighbour who has three pugs and they sound as though they are dying when they're taken for a walk.

Exaggerated characteristics which cause an animal physical distress should be banned for any animal. We have a little Welsh loan pony with a terrible mouthful of teeth. The vet says it;'s because they've been massively overbred to achieve small heads and slightly concave profiles, ('pretty' ponies) which means that the teeth have far less space than they should have.

Dogs that are bred to be bigger than the original 'types' often have bad hip problems.

I think it's appalling.

But, Doodledog, don't you think the breed societies have a responsibility to insist that animals should be 'sound' in every way; and show judges should enforce this in their judgements? They are the ones who set the standards, aren't they?

MaizieD

But, Doodledog, don't you think the breed societies have a responsibility to insist that animals should be 'sound' in every way; and show judges should enforce this in their judgements? They are the ones who set the standards, aren't they?

Yes, I do think that breed societies should be much more responsible. I love Oscar, and the thought of his being made 'illegal' is worrying; but I definitely think that there should be better regulation.

It's time people stopped treating dogs like fashion accessories. They are dogs and lovely in their natural state.

I'm not sure what the answer is, to be honest. I am as much against over breeding as any dog lover would be, but I'm just not sure how a 'ban' would work in practical terms. Look at the banning of certain so-called 'dangerous' breeds - we now find ourselves in a situation where the courts are asked to rule as to whether a particular dog is actually one of the banned breeds or not. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm sure that while there is still a demand for the current 'fashionable' breeds like Pugs and Frenchies, unscrupulous breeders would find a way round any ban, because money talks as far as these people are concerned. That's all they're interested in, not the welfare of the poor dogs.

Totally agree AGAA4.
And seeing dogs in pushchairs and being carried does my head in.unless they are poorly of course.
Buy a snake.

I agree with everyone here. Breeding certain features into dogs can cause great suffering to satisfy ridiculous human whims. It’s appalling to hear some of the flat-faced dogs struggling to breathe. I’m not a fan of the Kennel Club, which seems to encourage these aberrations. German shepherds originally had straight backs but it became the KC-encouraged fashion to breed them with sloping backs which caused very painful and disabling hip problems.

Existing dogs should be allowed to live out their lifespan, obviously.
Anyone who is found to own such a dog and not seek veterinary help should get a huge fine.

MaizieD

I completely agree. We have a neighbour who has three pugs and they sound as though they are dying when they're taken for a walk.

Exaggerated characteristics which cause an animal physical distress should be banned for any animal. We have a little Welsh loan pony with a terrible mouthful of teeth. The vet says it;'s because they've been massively overbred to achieve small heads and slightly concave profiles, ('pretty' ponies) which means that the teeth have far less space than they should have.

Dogs that are bred to be bigger than the original 'types' often have bad hip problems.

I think it's appalling.

How do you ban exaggerated characteristics, though?

I agree with you in principle, but in practice I don't know how it would work. Would you advocate destroying animals that don't fit a legally sanctioned aesthetic?

I don't know what the answer is, but it seems to me that too often the knee-jerk reaction is to 'ban' things that have gone wrong (not just with animals - it seems to be the immediate answer to so much these days, from junk food to SUVs) when it would be better to find practical ways to improve things.

Maybe 'delisting' breeds that have more problems than average would work? I doubt that's the right term, but I mean not allowing them to be shown at Crufts, or to have Kennel Club pedigrees - that sort of thing. Whether it would stop people from wanting them as pets is debatable, though.

MaizieD

But, Doodledog, don't you think the breed societies have a responsibility to insist that animals should be 'sound' in every way; and show judges should enforce this in their judgements? They are the ones who set the standards, aren't they?

The Kennel club could and should sort this. They write the breed standards and appoint judges. They need to stand up to the breeders and say you will change. If the breeders can’t show their dogs they will lose their customers. If the KC removed the un-cooperating breeders from their recommended lists things would soon change. It is not just pugs, as someone else said
GSD are having strange shapes bred into them. They can do it as they have managed with tail docking and ear clipping being illegal.

Dogs should be dogs not fashion accessories

Ive seen a German shepherd sent off at crufts because it's hips were too misshapen.

BeEmerald

Couldn’t agree more. Next door but one have two miniature French bulldogs. If you see them out you can hear them snuffling and snorting before you see them. Pekingese/ Pugs/ bulldogs and suchlike have been exploited by greedy breeders.
Mind you I’m not a fan of these crossover breeds either - you just get double the known breed faults. They may look lovely but apart from costing a fortune for what at one time would have been classed as a mongrel, they cost the owners more with inherited illnesses.

Totally agree. I live on Merseyside, and at the weekend on the coast, there are so many of these French bulldogs, you can hear them before you see them. They always look so uncomfortable, and so many of them are owned by very young couples who seem to think they are the owners of a "trendy" pet.

MissAdventure

Existing dogs should be allowed to live out their lifespan, obviously.
Anyone who is found to own such a dog and not seek veterinary help should get a huge fine.

The trouble is that people get the dogs in good faith, and later find that they have issues. If the owners know that there would be a huge fine the dogs would be even less likely to get medical help.

My daughter is a member of various Frenchie clubs and says that there are regular appeals for crowdfunding to pay vet bills. If genuine - there is a lot of scope for scamming - the owners love their dogs, but can't afford the huge bills for operations. Oscar has had over £10,000 of treatment (paid for by insurance), which is way beyond the reach of most people, and insurance costs are high for high risk breeds, which deters many, who think that because they have bought from someone they think is a reputable breeder, and paid a lot of money for the dog, they will be ok.

It's a mess, and I do think that regulation is way overdue, but I don't think that bans or punitive fines is going to help the dogs.

There isnt a reputable way to interfere with nature on the whim of humans, in my opinion.

What would help the dogs would be to let them return to the way nature intended them.
I know nothing about dogs, I'm not even a huge fan, bit I do know that if I bought a pug from a breeder then I would be storing up trouble.

MissAdventure

Ive seen a German shepherd sent off at crufts because it's hips were too misshapen.

How on earth did it ever get to Crufts? Is there no sort of qualification for entry? Like having won a certain number of qualifying classes? (I don't know much about the dog world, just horses)

I wouldn't want to see 'illegal' animals put down, but if the show animals have to be 'sound', with no debilitating inbred characteristic, then people who like showing would have to show animals that conform to the standard and people who just want pets wouldn't be upset by having altogether healthier dogs. Personally, I'd go for temperament over looks any day.