I think flat faced dogs should be banned

Sorry - that was to BlueBelle.

Why do you think that? I don't think that people are as daft or as easily conned as you suggest. I know people with cross-breeds such as you describe, and they know perfectly well what they are getting, and have chosen the new breed for very good reasons (eg labradoodles don't shed hair so are good pets for asthmatics). Also, after the first cross breeding, the dogs are often bred with other crosses, so they are a breed of their own.

There is no such thing as a 'natural' dog (well, maybe a wolf, but they don't make good pets ). 'Purebred' cocker spaniels and poodles are every bit as created as the cockapoo they can produce between them. If two second generation cockapoos breed they are as much a pedigree as their ancestors. If anything, those who believe that 'purebred' dogs are somehow more intrinsically valuable than 'crossbreds' are the ones being conned - they are all just dogs.

People won't be able to buy what isn't for sale.
How to stop the sellers is another issue, I realise, but it has to start somewhere.

Monkeyworld rescue is full of "pet" monkeys, which people really do love, but eventually they realise it is cruel.

Things need a bit of a shove in the right direction sometimes.

No we don’t need to go back to the days of dogs wandering the streets ….that’s the last thing needed doodle
The cockapoo is not maligned it’s a lovely cross breed dog what is much maligned is the fact that by giving it a cute and fancy name the breeders can diddle the public out of copious amount of money by conning then into believing they are getting some wonderful new breed of dog but they are just getting a cross breed a mongrel but paying top end prices
The public have been conned by a cute name
The same happens with tea cup pets, the smallest horse, the most floppy rag doll cat
It’s fooling the public and harming the animals and people fall for it, so more are bred and higher prices change hands it’s a business and a dirty business

My point is that mongrels only existed because people let their dogs roam around to mate with other roaming dogs. That rarely happens now because of (necessary) changes in legislation.

This means that dogs only breed under supervision, and as soon as people get involved you are looking at the crossbreeds we've seen ridiculed (not by you) or pedigrees that have problems bred in. Pedigrees only exist because people wanted to breed dogs to pull in boats or go down rabbit holes and so on. They are not 'natural' whether the breed is likely to have problems (and most do) or not.

Who has said that a life of operations is a good thing? Or that it is 'cute' for dogs to have breathing or mobility problems? I haven't seen anyone say that.

I agree that regulation is necessary, but I don't think it is as simple as it has been presented in some of the posts on this thread.

Surely there is a happy medium?
Having a mongrel doesn't mean letting it roam around, anymore than having a pug, jug, labradoodle, cockadoodledoo or anything else does.

Nobody is blaming the dogs.
How can a life of operations and recovery be their fault?

Operations to fix the issues that have been bred into them to make them look cute.

I see nothing cute about a dog labouring for breath, or one that can't walk properly, whatever the breed.

Oscar had an op on his soft palate and another on his nostrils, and he breaths perfectly normally. I am not saying that it's ok for them to need these operations, or that it is acceptable that they need them, but there is nothing cruel or unnecessary about his life.

To say that crossbreeds such as Labradoodles are ridiculous, that people paying money for them are stupid and that they should be stopped by law shows a woeful lack of knowledge of dogs. If anything, the cross-breeding is helpful to them, as the gene pool is broadened and the over-breeding needed to produce any pedigree dog is mitigated. Calling them names that reflect their heritage is a way for owners to describe their dogs in ways that are meaningful to those who do know what they are talking about. Why does that 'need to be stopped'??

Seriously - would people rather we went back to having dogs roaming about 'doing what comes naturally', and have the resulting puppies drowned in canals because homes can't be found?

Or have pets phased out, as the options are between that and breeding pedigrees? I agree with GSM that the KC is responsible for a lot; but the fact remains that any pedigree dog runs a risk of suffering as a result of overbreeding, but as mongrels are now in short supply there is little chance of getting a pet that has not been bred to their specifications.

Maybe the much maligned 'cross-breeds' such as cockapoos might be the best option?

So blame the breeders of dogs with issues not the breed or the dogs. There are badly bred dogs of all breeds maybe not so obvious but Labradors and German shepherds with hip dysplasia, Cavalier king charles with Chiari malformation and Syringomyelia probably every popular breed has health issues in their breed even the lovable rogues Jack Russells who have a habit of little hops when they run due to patella luxation.

I am the owner of a 10 year old pug. He is beautiful and I love him dearly. I have had him since he was 2 years old and he came from a local rehoming centre. He is my 4th dog (the only pedigree) and all have had previous owners.
Pugs need a considerable amount of care to keep their eyes and skin in good condition. Mine has no known health conditions but I think that is quite unusual. He will not normally go out for a walk during June, July and August. Its a shame but it is safer to just let him have permit access to the garden.
Not for one moment do I regret rehoming him, he has been a joy but, I cannot understand why anyone would set out to purchase a new puppy.

I think the Kennel Club has a lot to answer for as do the show judges who glorify these poor deformed animals.
I know a a French bulldog that struggles to walk more than a hundred yards, can’t eat from a bowl on the floor and who’s breathing is laboured even at rest.
I pity the poor creatures.

FlexibleFriend

I have two Pugs did have 3 until a few months ago and until then none of them had ever been to the vet with issues of any description. They had their jabs, medication for ears etc but that was it. The one who was pts a couple of months ago had a inoperable tumour she was 14 and healthy up to that point. I had her from 12 weeks old and she was adorable. I have two left both rehomes and both healthy. I haven't always had Pugs I got them because of my disability and inability to walk. Before becoming disabled I had 3 Dobermanns and walked 10 miles a day every day. All 3 died of cancer of one description or another all within the space of 18 months and all at 8 years old. My Pug did so much better and I get why people are so against them but please don't judge them all by the 5% that suffer and visit the vets so frequently when the other 95% are doing fine.

They are said to be very intelligent, funny little dogs. I must admit that, even though I’m not a fan of flat faced dogs I do have a soft spot for Pugs.

Not according to the kennel club vet interviewed on the news earlier MissAdventure. Anyway I prefer to go by personal experience and my vet tells me mine are healthy and fit and can and do not only breathe well but run and jump around with ease. Dogs that struggle to breathe can be for many reasons usually obesity oh but that's seen in dogs of all breeds not just Brachycephalic ones. Mine are also a healthy weight. If the owners were concerned they could have the problem rectified by surgery. Just as if they were concerned about their dogs weight they could stop over feeding it.

These poor dogs don't get the correct amount of oxygen even when they're stationary. I saw one struggling up the hill in our local park recently and the noise the poor thing was making was so loud. The owner didn't seem at all concerned though. It's just so cruel and for what. These designer dogs are really suffering.

youtu.be/ttfjwboc68k

All of the current pedigrees started off as crossbreeds and to talk about banning them would not help pedigrees as sometimes they have to breed in a certain characteristic from another breed to correct a deformity. In x number of generations, the breed becomes pure again.
A good, responsible of any dog will do the proper tests on the parents to check they are not breeding in unhealthy traits. There are many crossbreeders who do this. They test both parents for known problems and those crossbreeds are likely to be healthier than the original pedigrees. It is the backyard breeders of any dog who don't do this and they should be stopped. Everybody should be licensed to breed any animal and the relevant tests enforced.

The Kennel Club's own research shows that 50 per cent of Pugs, Bulldogs and French Bulldogs have significant breathing problems.
Only 7-15 percent breathe normally.

I have two Pugs did have 3 until a few months ago and until then none of them had ever been to the vet with issues of any description. They had their jabs, medication for ears etc but that was it. The one who was pts a couple of months ago had a inoperable tumour she was 14 and healthy up to that point. I had her from 12 weeks old and she was adorable. I have two left both rehomes and both healthy. I haven't always had Pugs I got them because of my disability and inability to walk. Before becoming disabled I had 3 Dobermanns and walked 10 miles a day every day. All 3 died of cancer of one description or another all within the space of 18 months and all at 8 years old. My Pug did so much better and I get why people are so against them but please don't judge them all by the 5% that suffer and visit the vets so frequently when the other 95% are doing fine.

Crufts and The Kennel Club are all complicit in this and it's just horrible for the poor dogs - not just the flat faced ones, or the ones that have brains bigger than their skulls, but also dogs like German Shepherds that literally have their back ends just off the floor and can barely walk! Just awful .....

This designer breeding is totally disgusting along with the practice of surgically reducing dogs ears to make them stand up..........its is not natural and should not be allowed.
These people are NOT animal lovers, they just want designer dogs to match their designer life-style.

The rescue my girls dog went to was very strict.
I read a review from a doctor who said "I can't leave my patients multiple times day to talk about dogs, so they have struck me off their list!"

It's what I wanted though, because the wrong owner would have been a disaster. (I include myself in that category)

MayBee70 - we lost our old Lab during covid and the breeder we got our new boy from was exactly the same. We also had to go through a 'Spanish Inquisition' from her before she agreed to let us have a pup and I didn't mind that one bit, as I completely understood her reasons behind it. We have kept in touch with her since and send her regular updates on how our boy is doing. As you say, if only all breeders were as responsible.

The woman that bred my whippet put a list up of all of the dogs she’s bred over the years. Apart from one that tragically died from a freak accident they’re all going strong, including her foundation bitch who still runs and plays with the younger dogs. She asks all new owners to tell her of any health problem their dog might have in case it’s anything hereditary. All puppies are health checked before they leave her; she home checks everyone and will rehome any of her dogs if needed, but that never happens. It’s like the Spanish Inquisition getting a puppy from her as she makes sure you’re a suitable owner for the breed. All the owners can keep in touch with each other and we can see how our dogs siblings are getting on. We aren’t allowed to breed from them. My daughters dog is a different breed but her breeder is the same. If only all dog breeders were like them.

Spot on MissA. What people spend on some of these dogs is unbelievable. Just to be in fashion. Take them out of fashion, put the breeders out of business.

Disgraceful refers to the pdsa listing the problems that pugs have, and then suggesting ways to mitigate them if you still want one, westendgirl.
Mostly advice on having good insurance - what about the dog??

The rest, well, you are free to decide for yourself on the meaning.

That's the thing isn't it?
If there was no money to be made from breeding these extreme deformities, then it would die out.
Very different from rescuing a dog who already has issues.