I think flat faced dogs should be banned

Miss Adventure, what exactly does disgraceful refer to ?

I think the only way for these awful breeding 'quirks' to be stopped is for dogs with them to be banned from shows. That starts with the KC and feeds down to the various societies. If thee dogs aren't fashionable, then in time I hope people would stop buying them and this unethical breeding would stop. I have been looking around, tentatively, for another rescue shepherd after losing my girl. One dog which caught my eye was a 10 year old with severe displaysia in one hip. I would gladly have taken her despite her age and disability but there are steps in my house, even up to the living room, and she would be much more comfortable in a single storey home. I couldn't inflict unnecessary additional pain on her but would have considered taking her if she were in kennels, a miserable environment. Thankfully she is in a good foster home, not kennels, and I suspect that is where she will live out her days. She needs pain relief, as did a previous shepherd of mine. All because the KC thought that, for some reason I can't fathom, shepherds should have sloping backs. I have no time for them and their cruel fancies.

Seizures and so on are listed as known pug problems.
How any dog lover could not know is beyond me.
Even the pdsa says "but, if you still really want to have one...." and gives a list of things to do, such as buying one with less abnormal features.
Disgraceful.

My Daughter had an adorable French Bulldog. She got her checked before she bought, checked out by Vet, all OK as a puppy.

3 years later, that darling dog started having problems. Firstly she started having fits.. Vet got under control however in the following couple of years they got worse. She then started getting other problems, which tends to be seen in very old Dogs.
She eventually went into major organ failure just after her 5th Birthday, few weeks later on Boxing Day, we had to take her to an Emergency Vet, where she was put to sleep.
Fabulous Dog, but poor little thing.

She was fine just for those first 3 years, it wasn't her breathing but other organs.
We really miss her.

I have a pug who was bought for me. ~He does have problems with his breathing now that he is older. I do know that his whole family were seen before he was chosen . They didn't have problems.We are careful with him, walk him when its cool in the summer.He does go out to meet other dog friends otherwise.He is the dearest dog and we love him very much.

Hyena shaped dogs who can't run properly.
Well done, humans.

youtu.be/QBq6gM0sI7A

Cross breeds are much, much healthier than pedigree dogs.

I've just been checking stuff and I was wrong.
There was controversy about the 2016 best of breed winners st crufts.
German shepherds who couldn't move properly due to the sloping back and hip issues.

For a start dogs need to stop being named with fancy names like cockatoo and labradoodle it’s ridiculous they are cross breeds, mongrels The amount of silly money paid for these mongrels is just stupid when people are complaining about putting the heating off and eating once a day
Stop putting dresses and outfits on dogs, stop taking them for walks in handbags, pushchairs breeds need to be normal dog breeds that have been around for centuries not larger, stronger, flatter bigger tail, smaller ears let them be as they were with no human intervention.
The breeders should be stopped by law, of course dogs already here can live their lives out, but no more bred to spend £1000 s on trying to patch them up for the dreadful things we ve done to them
It’s just so awful for the dogs (and to a lesser degree cats too)

I think moves are afoot in the dog breeding world to improve the breeding strains of these dogs. Unfortunately there will always be market for these dogs for people who don't care about the health issues and just want the looks. There are so many illegal breeders around I don't see things changing any time soon.

I've no idea of the crufts selection process, but is it fairly recent that the kennel club have tightened up on hip dysplasia in German shepherds?

MissAdventure

Ive seen a German shepherd sent off at crufts because it's hips were too misshapen.

How on earth did it ever get to Crufts? Is there no sort of qualification for entry? Like having won a certain number of qualifying classes? (I don't know much about the dog world, just horses)

I wouldn't want to see 'illegal' animals put down, but if the show animals have to be 'sound', with no debilitating inbred characteristic, then people who like showing would have to show animals that conform to the standard and people who just want pets wouldn't be upset by having altogether healthier dogs. Personally, I'd go for temperament over looks any day.

There isnt a reputable way to interfere with nature on the whim of humans, in my opinion.

What would help the dogs would be to let them return to the way nature intended them.
I know nothing about dogs, I'm not even a huge fan, bit I do know that if I bought a pug from a breeder then I would be storing up trouble.

MissAdventure

Existing dogs should be allowed to live out their lifespan, obviously.
Anyone who is found to own such a dog and not seek veterinary help should get a huge fine.

The trouble is that people get the dogs in good faith, and later find that they have issues. If the owners know that there would be a huge fine the dogs would be even less likely to get medical help.

My daughter is a member of various Frenchie clubs and says that there are regular appeals for crowdfunding to pay vet bills. If genuine - there is a lot of scope for scamming - the owners love their dogs, but can't afford the huge bills for operations. Oscar has had over £10,000 of treatment (paid for by insurance), which is way beyond the reach of most people, and insurance costs are high for high risk breeds, which deters many, who think that because they have bought from someone they think is a reputable breeder, and paid a lot of money for the dog, they will be ok.

It's a mess, and I do think that regulation is way overdue, but I don't think that bans or punitive fines is going to help the dogs.

BeEmerald

Couldn’t agree more. Next door but one have two miniature French bulldogs. If you see them out you can hear them snuffling and snorting before you see them. Pekingese/ Pugs/ bulldogs and suchlike have been exploited by greedy breeders.
Mind you I’m not a fan of these crossover breeds either - you just get double the known breed faults. They may look lovely but apart from costing a fortune for what at one time would have been classed as a mongrel, they cost the owners more with inherited illnesses.

Totally agree. I live on Merseyside, and at the weekend on the coast, there are so many of these French bulldogs, you can hear them before you see them. They always look so uncomfortable, and so many of them are owned by very young couples who seem to think they are the owners of a "trendy" pet.

Ive seen a German shepherd sent off at crufts because it's hips were too misshapen.

MaizieD

But, Doodledog, don't you think the breed societies have a responsibility to insist that animals should be 'sound' in every way; and show judges should enforce this in their judgements? They are the ones who set the standards, aren't they?

The Kennel club could and should sort this. They write the breed standards and appoint judges. They need to stand up to the breeders and say you will change. If the breeders can’t show their dogs they will lose their customers. If the KC removed the un-cooperating breeders from their recommended lists things would soon change. It is not just pugs, as someone else said
GSD are having strange shapes bred into them. They can do it as they have managed with tail docking and ear clipping being illegal.

Dogs should be dogs not fashion accessories

MaizieD

I completely agree. We have a neighbour who has three pugs and they sound as though they are dying when they're taken for a walk.

Exaggerated characteristics which cause an animal physical distress should be banned for any animal. We have a little Welsh loan pony with a terrible mouthful of teeth. The vet says it;'s because they've been massively overbred to achieve small heads and slightly concave profiles, ('pretty' ponies) which means that the teeth have far less space than they should have.

Dogs that are bred to be bigger than the original 'types' often have bad hip problems.

I think it's appalling.

How do you ban exaggerated characteristics, though?

I agree with you in principle, but in practice I don't know how it would work. Would you advocate destroying animals that don't fit a legally sanctioned aesthetic?

I don't know what the answer is, but it seems to me that too often the knee-jerk reaction is to 'ban' things that have gone wrong (not just with animals - it seems to be the immediate answer to so much these days, from junk food to SUVs) when it would be better to find practical ways to improve things.

Maybe 'delisting' breeds that have more problems than average would work? I doubt that's the right term, but I mean not allowing them to be shown at Crufts, or to have Kennel Club pedigrees - that sort of thing. Whether it would stop people from wanting them as pets is debatable, though.

Existing dogs should be allowed to live out their lifespan, obviously.
Anyone who is found to own such a dog and not seek veterinary help should get a huge fine.

I agree with everyone here. Breeding certain features into dogs can cause great suffering to satisfy ridiculous human whims. It’s appalling to hear some of the flat-faced dogs struggling to breathe. I’m not a fan of the Kennel Club, which seems to encourage these aberrations. German shepherds originally had straight backs but it became the KC-encouraged fashion to breed them with sloping backs which caused very painful and disabling hip problems.

Totally agree AGAA4.
And seeing dogs in pushchairs and being carried does my head in.unless they are poorly of course.
Buy a snake.

I'm not sure what the answer is, to be honest. I am as much against over breeding as any dog lover would be, but I'm just not sure how a 'ban' would work in practical terms. Look at the banning of certain so-called 'dangerous' breeds - we now find ourselves in a situation where the courts are asked to rule as to whether a particular dog is actually one of the banned breeds or not. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm sure that while there is still a demand for the current 'fashionable' breeds like Pugs and Frenchies, unscrupulous breeders would find a way round any ban, because money talks as far as these people are concerned. That's all they're interested in, not the welfare of the poor dogs.

It's time people stopped treating dogs like fashion accessories. They are dogs and lovely in their natural state.

MaizieD

But, Doodledog, don't you think the breed societies have a responsibility to insist that animals should be 'sound' in every way; and show judges should enforce this in their judgements? They are the ones who set the standards, aren't they?

Yes, I do think that breed societies should be much more responsible. I love Oscar, and the thought of his being made 'illegal' is worrying; but I definitely think that there should be better regulation.