So ... no more fines for Boris!

Secretsquirrel1

Thank God for that. Tbh I think we’ve got more pressing things to deal with right now. I’d like both parties to just cooperate and concentrate on Russia (and the looming economic crisis)
I personally think Putin poses such a huge threat to us, more than ever the worse his war is going for him, so whether or not Boris or Starmer had social gatherings during lockdown, although of importance, aren’t actually the main priority at this dangerous time.

Oh how I agree with you Secretsquirrell. With so many major problems at the moment, for goodness sake please just let them get on with the job. The rest of the world must be falling about laughing at how much time, energy and money has gone into investigating these so called parties whilst other real crimes go unpunished

Looking at some of the comments - particularly when this is being discussed on other social media sites - it would appear that people think fascism arrives with jack boots on the streets rather than by stealth.

Funnily enough, a year ago, say, if anyone mentioned our slide towards fascism on here they were mostly rubbished by other posters. Now it passes without comment.

But, OTOH, we don't get many government supporters posting on the News & Politics threads any more.

(P.S I was desperately trying to word my previous answer so as not to give the impression that I was getting at you.. I obviously don't have a way with words today )

MaizieD

^TBH, I don't think many people believe we're heading towards fascism.^

But we very clearly are. I don't have to argue it out with you, do I, Dickens? I think you can see it too.

... yes, I think we most definitely are.

But I'm not convinced that so many believe it. Because it's insidious... Machiavellian.

Looking at some of the comments - particularly when this is being discussed on other social media sites - it would appear that people think fascism arrives with jack boots on the streets rather than by stealth.

That was my point. I'm certainly not defending those who can't see what is happening.

Ou mean while, at the same time, making it incredibly difficult for people from Ukraine to come here?

Petera
I just don’t think this is a good time to change PM tbh. I’m not a massive Boris fan but I do like the way he’s been quite ballsy with Putin.

He is absolutely not a big picture man. He's more like a frog who hops from one lily pad to another. He has absolutely no vision for the country, his vision is to stay in power and and enrich his class.

Has anyone ever wondered why the MET, after saying there was nothing to investigate, changed their mind?
Was it because the Good Law Project threatened to take the ,MET to court, if they continued to ignore the evidence gathered by Sue Gray. YES.
The MET was forced into a u-turn by the Good Law Project.
So, did they then send their top team of Detectives to do face to face interviews with the accused, under oath? NO
Did they send experienced middle grade officers? NO
Did they send raw recruits to give them some interview practice? NO
Our biggest, most staffed Police Force in the Four Kingdoms cynically sent questionnaires.
And still Johnson earned a fine. Even with the legal brains who would have been helping him to fill it out. He still was fined.
And some people think justice has been done.
(PS the Good Law Project is currently taking the MET to court on another issue, but that's for a different thread.

I suppose when he left his sick wife the argument was it wasn’t his fault it was his mistresses. Another thing people forget is I don’t think we’ve ever had a PM in Downing Street with a live in lover (I, as a child of the sixties am no prude but it surprised me that ‘conservative’ Conservative voters were happy about that ).The bar of decency in this country just gets lower and lower. Morals, law, both international and domestic; environmental….and people now just accept that that is how it is because, as they’ve been gaslighted into believing ‘there’s no alternative ’. There is, actually, even an alternative of a morally responsible Conservative government but the party itself seem to be incapable of achieving that. I can’t actually believe what’s happening.

I have no idea what mousemac's post means.

Of all the people who post on here, Casdon is one of the most even handed, well informed and interesting people we have.

Insulting her intellect is not going to get anybody anywhere.

TBH, I don't think many people believe we're heading towards fascism.

But we very clearly are. I don't have to argue it out with you, do I, Dickens? I think you can see it too.

Casdon seems to be unaware that Johnson is Prime Minister, and responsible for the xurrent mess in the UK.
How wonderful to be so detached.

I think we all know what Johnson’s like, and some of us have known forever. But some were willing to vote him into power so that we could “Get Brexit Done”, although of course even some of those credulous people are now beginning to see that its not done at all, nothing like it. But even though he hasn’t changed at all, its those who voted him in that we need to fear; those who don’t care that he’s a lying scheming charlatan etc. etc…because he's good old Boris and at least he's not boring. The message from James O’Brien that I posted on this thread yesterday lunchtime is so valid. If someone voted for him and his promises, and still worse if they think they would vote that way again, then they are the architect of the troubles this country has.

When you read all the posts saying things like, it’s not been proved, he was just led astray, it was his wife’s fault, I can’t be the only one who wonders how we got here. If you have to apologise so often for something, but keep insisting it’s not his fault really, what does that say? Apart from the fact that he is a moral coward? What does that say about how this country has gone? They call them the “Honourable Member for xxx” because the assumption is, they are actually Honourable. That’s why they are not allowed to call each other liars. Well Honourable isn’t an adjective I’d apply to Johnson and his crew, not ever.

I don't know.

In many ways, Johnson is like a toddler - he constantly pushes boundaries to get his own way. It's all about him, and his wants and needs.?

Because he's never been punished, but just excused, he pushes them further the next time.

Sooner or later, he will push just a little too much and it will all come crashing down.?

It's not over till the Commons committee's (which has a majority of Tories) report which will be after Sue Gray's report but don't hold your breath. I think it's more than likely the greased piglet will escape again. It"s all disgraceful but what can you expect from Johnson's Tories?!

Sue Grey is completing her report by 5pm on Dunday night.

She will be naming those fined, although they can challenge this up until Sunday.

The report will, apparently be published, in full, at the beginning of next week.

Johnson said, on TV, he will make a statement before Parliament, when it's published.

The enquiry into whether he misled Parliament will start after that.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61520212

MayBee70

Even now the party can’t have a vote of no confidence in him because they would lose and he would have another two years grace. The man is stripping away everything about this country that I hold dear and turning it and its’ peoples into a place I no longer recognise….

Seems endemic in politics at present.

A FORMER Labour MP who sexually assaulted a female staffer in his Westminster office has been ordered to pay more than £434,000 in damages.

Mike Hill, 59, who resigned as MP for Hartlepool in March last year, was found by a tribunal to have preyed upon, harassed and victimised the woman over a 16-month period.

I suppose we could always spoil our ballot papers at the next GE!

MaizieD

^Thank God for that. Tbh I think we’ve got more pressing things to deal with right now. I’d like both parties to just cooperate and concentrate on Russia (and the looming economic crisis)^

I think you are being incredibly naive, SecretSquirrel.

Firstly, I don't think that 'partygate' is out of the way by a very long chalk. There is the small matter of some extremely disgruntled junior staffers who have been fined, when senior people, including Johnson, present at the same parties haven't been fined. Then there is Sue Grey's report, yet to be published, which could be pretty damning. And I don't think that a very large section of the public are going to forget that Johnson et al were thumbing their noses at the rules that Johnson was daily telling people it was imperative that they complied with.

Secondly, why on earth should the opposition 'work with' a government that has indicated that it has absolutely no intention of helping people weather the economic crisis? It would be truly pathetic of them to do so. And there already seems to be cross party agreement on the measures taken to help Ukraine, which the Defence Secretary seems to be dealing with perfectly competently. What more would you like the opposition to do?

I'd suggest that you stop fearing Putin. He and his army are not turning out to be as awesome as people thought.. And it's not actually our war. It's Ukraine's.

OTOH, the descent of our government into fascism is something which cannot be ignored or let slide because we 'have more pressing things to deal with'. Unless you relish the thought of waking up one day to find we have a full blown fascist regime very similar to Putin's...

TBH, I don't think many people believe we're heading towards fascism.

Government ministers increasingly think they can make laws - taking powers to change the rules and regulations - without properly consulting Parliament. In other words, the power is shifting from Parliament to ministers.

Legislation should be founded on the principles of Parliamentary democracy (sovereignty), the rule of law and the accountability of the executive to Parliament.

And there should be limits on executive power. Otherwise the executive runs the country... and we slide into fascism.

But do people get it?

As for 'partygate' and there being more important things to deal with... it is the media creating the headlines which lead people to think that the government is focused solely on this one issue. Which of course it isn't. Governments are notoriously adept at concentrating on more than one issue at a time... it's part of their remit to juggle all issues at the same time, otherwise they'd never get anything done at all.

One could have said that Johnson should've delayed the Brexit deal for 6 months (as suggested by the EU) to cope with the then pressing Pandemic. But he refused. He was able to juggle the Pandemic and Brexit at the same time. I'm sure he can deal with partygate and Ukraine in the same way.

TanaMa

I should have thought Putin was a more suitable person to villify at the moment! Also why not the same amount of flack for the saintly Keir Starmer??

Putin is Russia's problem, not ours. I'm more concerned about our deeply corrupt and fascist leaning government.

Why on earth should Starmer be getting any flak?

Should we not do something about our incompetent Prime Minister just because another country has somebody worse?

I should have thought Putin was a more suitable person to villify at the moment! Also why not the same amount of flack for the saintly Keir Starmer??

Here is Mhairi Black telling it like it is!

twitter.com/MhairiBlack/status/1526999103615401984?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Secretsquirrel1

Thank God for that. Tbh I think we’ve got more pressing things to deal with right now. I’d like both parties to just cooperate and concentrate on Russia (and the looming economic crisis)
I personally think Putin poses such a huge threat to us, more than ever the worse his war is going for him, so whether or not Boris or Starmer had social gatherings during lockdown, although of importance, aren’t actually the main priority at this dangerous time.

Hear hear Secretsquirrell!

I wouldn't be surprised if Boris, dodges this bullet again.
He's there for a while.

What I can't get my head around is why tory voters still think that the behaviour of JB is OK and are happy with his ways of treating the UK nations and would potentially vote him in again?
That really is beyond belief... heads in the sand!

This weekend Sue Grey will be informing those named in her report and they have a right to object and have that investigated. More delaying tactics from the powers that be so don’t hold your breath for ‘the truth’. I’m over party gate but hoping Johnson, buoyed seemingly getting away with it again will be found out in something so big that even the Tory party have had enough. I wait with bated breath ?