Why is Johnson more popular than Starmer?

Marmight

Keir Starmer has as much charisma as a sack stuffed with straw. Not even going to comment on the other one ….
Surely out of a population of over 67 million there’s someone out there who’s capable of doing the job?

Did anyone discuss if Cameron had charisma? Or May? I’m sure it’s only since Johnson became the darling of the electorate that people started discussing how much charisma a PM was required to have.

GagaJo

Doesn't it depend how much you pay and who you know?

And if daddy went there?

I think, with royals it's an automatic pass. William wasn't considered that bright, Harry even less so, but both went there anyway.

What school, would turn them down?

Doesn't it depend how much you pay and who you know?

A friend who before retirement had been head of the English department at a large comprehensive marked GCSE papers from Eton. Sadly for him, being a believer in the State system, he found nothing wrong with of the papers but in fact found they were good.

My understanding is that there are so many applicants for schools like Eton that they can chose the brightest and that money doesn't necessarily buy a place

@Iam64 @Mamie it’s no so much that I dislike Starmer (& certainly not for his intelligence & achievements), it is that I find him so disappointing.

His leadership of Labour Party has not halted the rapid demise of what should be a left of centre party that many centrists should be able to vote for with no qualms. He is ineffective as Leader of the Opposition & I am weary of his lacklustre impact on Boris, all the corruption & chaos of this Government.

I was particularly annoyed to hear Starmer on the radio tell how he has effectively boxed in & tied the hands of the Durham police forces investigation into ‘Currygate’ so that whatever independent decision is made about charges & fines will always have his potential resignation looming. Maybe his laser sharp grasp of legal process helps him to show clean hands as he scuppers due process?

We are on the brink of war, looming widespread deep socio-economic crisis that will blight this generation, barely coming round after the impact of Covid & lockdown, & the Leader of the Opposition is poncing about on the mass media playing ‘catch me if you can’ & his deputy is acting out her own Cameo cut-down Basic Instinct featuring her self-named Ginger Growler.

Why is Boris popular or rather why is he still there (apart from 70 seat majority give or take a few who are barred from the HoP or behind bars)?

Partly because the Loyal Opposition is so factional, disorganised, confused & lacking vision, not to mention in thrall of the woken & tolerant of anti-semites, all bobbing about in a bubble of metropolitan elitism. More or less.

As I mentioned, I am disappointed.

Johnson is a clever actor. He has been taught how to charm the lower classes.

Only once have I changed my views on party leadership.
For now sticking to ' better the devil you know'.

OakDryad if you click on the dislikable in that article it will take you to a graph for each of the men, the last date on it is 14thApril, when it seems Johnson's dislikability was falling and Starmer's was rising, which is weird.

Maybe not so weird Glorianny. It probably correlates to Boris not getting any more fines or being praised by Zelensky and Starmer losing the plot over what constitutes a woman plus the ‘beergate’ debacle.

When Starmer was director of public prosecutions

He made many errors of judgment to the establishments favour.

He was in contact with the coalition government and worked to keep in and on side with the Establishment

The young man with autism who wanted to find out just for his own interests American tech and found the password was easy and unchanged. Starmer said to America I will see he gets booked to rights. Then this guys mother wrote to Starmer begging him to do something so her son wouldn't spend his life locked up in prison in America. Starmer replied to his mother You are making me feel uncomfortable anyway it was Theresa May who stepped in and saved him from deportation. And other high profile cases, also Assange he was responsible for not acting on his behalf only to please the establishment. So I don't trust Starmer he lied about the pledges he won't rock the boat will keep the status quo. No change from him.

I thought Ed Miliband recently absolutely wiped the floor with the chancellor, really showed him up for what and who he is. Bravo.

Starmer just plays along with Johnson.

In Henry VI Part 2, Dick says The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers ... It's a famous and much discussed line. He's suggesting that one of the ways the band of pretenders to the throne can improve the country is to kill all the lawyers. The government already has the crown so to speak but, right now, it is seeking to undermine the judiciary by introducing legislation which would allow ministers to overturn decisions.

If passed, decisions could be overturned not on the basis of law but to court popular demand. Raab's recent and dishonest posturing over a high profile parole decision is a case in point. He had been asked but had been unable provide any evidence to support his claim that the decision was wrong. He's just another sitting MP in search of a cause to bolster his flagging popularity. He might aspire to the top job if Johnson can ever be removed but his own Esher majority was reduced to 2743 in the 2019 election (23,298 in 2017). That's an astonishing reduction for a wealthy place such as Esher. It could well fall to the LibDems at the next GE.

Which past leader of a party had charisma ?

Keir Starmer has as much charisma as a sack stuffed with straw. Not even going to comment on the other one ….
Surely out of a population of over 67 million there’s someone out there who’s capable of doing the job?

Indeed Anniebach.
Though if people are wrongfully arrested they would probably prefer a lawyer to a celebrity. It seems that being serious, informed, hard-working are not qualities to be admired by some on here. I despair.

People have more trust in someone with the morals of an
ally cat than a lawyer ?

People love celebrities, lawyers are boring

This poll, commissioned by the Tory loving DM, shows Labour are trusted more and in front, popularity wise:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10838745/Boris-grip-cost-living-crisis-LOSE-election-Mail-poll-issues-warning-PM.html

OakDryad

I've said before that I don't set much store by YouGov polls as the samples are so small (max 2000) with participants chosen from “carefully-selected websites”. Who? Where?

Like is context dependent. What questions were asked? I rather liked Johnny Depp and Laurence Fox as actors. Do I like them as people? No.

That said, this poll in Feb 2022:

With the ‘partygate’ scandal having rumbled on for much of January and February, new YouGov tracking data shows what damage the extended crisis has had on the prime minister since the last incarnation in late December.

Three quarters of Britons (75%) now say that they consider the prime minister to be untrustworthy, a six-point rise from the prior poll in December. Only one in nine (11%) consider him to be trustworthy, compared to 15% at the tail end of last year.

More than two thirds of Britons (68%) also consider the PM to be incompetent, from 64% in the last poll. Only 19% consider him competent, from 22% in December.

A similar number consider Boris Johnson to be indecisive (69%), while 61% consider him weak, and most find him dislikeable (55%).

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/02/22/public-opinion-boris-johnsons-competence-and-trust

I wouldn’t mind seeing some updated numbers for that. Trust and competence etc far more relevant and important characteristics.

OakDryad if you click on the dislikable in that article it will take you to a graph for each of the men, the last date on it is 14thApril, when it seems Johnson's dislikability was falling and Starmer's was rising, which is weird.
I do think Starmer's background contributes towards the public perception of him and that people don't like lawyers.

I've said before that I don't set much store by YouGov polls as the samples are so small (max 2000) with participants chosen from “carefully-selected websites”. Who? Where?

Like is context dependent. What questions were asked? I rather liked Johnny Depp and Laurence Fox as actors. Do I like them as people? No.

That said, this poll in Feb 2022:

With the ‘partygate’ scandal having rumbled on for much of January and February, new YouGov tracking data shows what damage the extended crisis has had on the prime minister since the last incarnation in late December.

Three quarters of Britons (75%) now say that they consider the prime minister to be untrustworthy, a six-point rise from the prior poll in December. Only one in nine (11%) consider him to be trustworthy, compared to 15% at the tail end of last year.

More than two thirds of Britons (68%) also consider the PM to be incompetent, from 64% in the last poll. Only 19% consider him competent, from 22% in December.

A similar number consider Boris Johnson to be indecisive (69%), while 61% consider him weak, and most find him dislikeable (55%).

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/02/22/public-opinion-boris-johnsons-competence-and-trust

I wouldn’t mind seeing some updated numbers for that. Trust and competence etc far more relevant and important characteristics.

Iam64
I like Lisa Nandy too, I like her very much. I hope she is a leader in waiting. Why wasn’t she selected I wonder. Maybe she was seen as a bit young. The Labour Party really do need to have a woman as leader sometime soon.

According to the latest polls from YouGov:

Johnson

Popularity (liked by) 28%
Disliked by 52%
Neutral 19%

Starmer
Popularity (liked by) 33%
Disliked by 34%
Neutral 25%

If the above are correct, Starmer is more popular and less disliked than Johnson.
Neutral 25%

Casdon

Right/Left has been done to death on Gransnet.

A more meaningful debate would be ‘Why is Boris Johnson more appealing to Tory voters than any other Tory MP?’

This!

Mamie

GrannySquare Keir Starmer was a barrister, a QC and Director of Public Prosecutions, one of the most senior roles in the legal profession.
You may not like him, but facts do matter.

Starmer was liked and respected as a barrister QC and Director of CPS. He has integrity as demonstrated in his working and personal life.
He was bar far the best of the candidates standing in the leadership election. Lisa Nandy was a close second for me, she’s a future leader. Starmer became leader at a really low point in the history of the Labour Party. The momentum lot still create dissent in local constituencies, they’re noisy and offensive about Starmer on social media. I fear Starmer needs to be Kinnock, get rid of these people. History repeats.

Johnson seems to appeal to the maverick in our culture, we like a rebel providing they’re conventional. I loathe him. I loathe what 12 years of conservative govt has done to public services.

As I see it , we are living in a crazy post Truth world lacking in vision or inspiration, there is no trust in politicians or their policies, authenticity and ethics have vanished all we are presented with is a blurring of the same unhinged outdated adversarial rhetoric. Discernment is lacking and so Fakery rules, and we long for, are beguiled by powerful Energies to nourish our Souls. Sadly our choice now is simply one of dour doomery or hopeful buffoonery

Whitewavemark2

A Tory I think said that if the political parties left of the tories - and that would not be difficult- cooperated they will get in next time.

If they then produce a fairer voting system that actually reflected the electorates will, it would mean the end of the Tory party.

If a fair proportional system had been in use since WW2 the Tories would only have been in government twice.

It shows how unfair the system actually is.

And we think we have a democratic system...

A Tory I think said that if the political parties left of the tories - and that would not be difficult- cooperated they will get in next time.

If they then produce a fairer voting system that actually reflected the electorates will, it would mean the end of the Tory party.

If a fair proportional system had been in use since WW2 the Tories would only have been in government twice.

It shows how unfair the system actually is.