19 children and two adults murdered in school shooting in Texas

We used to have an issue with guns here in Australia. One good thing that John Howard, our then PM did, was to take guns away from most people and make it much,much harder to get hold of them. The best and bravest thing he ever did. What is wrong with all these woosie American politicians that they can't stand up to these Southern fanatical deadbeats?

Hithere

Being UK centric does not mean that what worked/happened in the UK can be extrapolated to the rest of the world

There are plenty of posters not located in the UK

It's not just the UK, though, is it.
Other countries have gun licensing laws. Other countries do not sell semi-automatics to just anyone over the age of 18 along with the weekly groceries.

Surely a federal law requiring gun licensing could be a first step forward?

^

Oh, sorry, I’ve x-posted. Some of the later messages hadn’t downloaded.

Or am I being naïve here?
No, you aren't.

The UK, though, is more representative of most of the world. As far as I know, no other country has a culture of school mass shootings like the US has. The US is the outlier here.

Hithere

Being UK centric does not mean that what worked/happened in the UK can be extrapolated to the rest of the world

There are plenty of posters not located in the UK

I think, because we think that Americans speak the same language as the British (well, similar if not exactly) that we assume they will have similar aims, ideals, a similar psyche.

It's a mistake to assume that.

I think that this is being over thought, here and in the US. I know that certain US Citizens believe it is their constitutional right to bear arms to protect themselves. But its not just either/or.

I understand that this latest murderer was only 18 years old and had recently bought the weapons he used. They weren't just lying about in his house or his car. So surely the first step is to limit how easy it is to buy arms? And surely nobody needs an arsenal to protect themselves at home? I understand too that there are some US citizens who feel that unless they stay vigilant then the state will take over their lives. But surely its possible to show them that they can keep their precious "right to bear arms" without having an arsenal like Fort Knox at home and without being able to buy an AK47 at the drop of a hat, in Walmart?

Or am I being naïve here?

I will try to explain it in a different way

Heavily embedded social customs - dowry in India, Pakistan, Africa, etc, forced marriages in some cultures, FMG, smoking, etc can be very hard to change as it is what those countries are used to that for centuries or decades

A law can be made to address it but it doesn't mean it won't find opposition with some parties and will take time to be adopted

Same in the US - this country was born with the principle of protecting yourself with guns, it is part of its Constitution.
Add political turmoil to the mix, economical interests, lobbyists and it is not as simple as "make a law to fix the shootings"

Also, Callistemon only mentioned how banning cigarette laws worked in the UK before going on to comment about the other examples in other countries. Hardly UK-centric at all.

Hithere, l know that but these are our views on a very difficult, sad situation. If you look around the Western world you will see that other countries have similar gun laws to the UK and have reacted in similar ways to gun-related tragedies. It works. The only outlier is the USA. In actual fact, the developed country that is most inward-looking and the one that thinks the rest of the world should think in the same way as them is the USA. Also, what have banning cigarettes, dowries and forced marriages got to do with gun laws in the USA anyway?

Being UK centric does not mean that what worked/happened in the UK can be extrapolated to the rest of the world

There are plenty of posters not located in the UK

Gun owners have children/family members & will protect them. They believe anti-gun owner's children/family members have the right to the same protection. If anti-gun people won't protect their children, the legal gun owners will step forward & put their life on the line to do so when the Shit Hits the Fan.

But they didn’t step forward, did they, Torge? It very much looks as though those cowardly armed officers stood back and let innocent children and their teachers die rather than put their own lives on the line.

Hithere

You miss my point

The world is not only the UK and what happens here

Not all countries were so welcoming with the smoking ban, some took years

Dowry - it's illegal, yet still practiced and demanded to this date

Laws can say one thing, "culture" and customs other

This is a British site so we are likely to comment from a UK-centric perspective. In actual fact we are all trying to be as understanding as possible and have reacted very reasonably and politely to some strong provocation from some of the American posters.

You miss my point

The world is not only the UK and what happens here

Not all countries were so welcoming with the smoking ban, some took years

Dowry - it's illegal, yet still practiced and demanded to this date

Laws can say one thing, "culture" and customs other

Hithere

Making laws to ban something doesnt mean the society follows suit immediately, it takes years for compliance

Examples
1. Smoking
2. Dowry
3. Forced marriages

You get the drift

I think people complied with the smoking ban very quickly here in the UK, thank goodness.

Dowry? I believe dowries are illegal now in India but what has that to do with gun control in the USA?
Likewise arranged marriages?

some may have only limited experience of living in a limited area themselves and others from what they hear from other people.

Please don't keep insulting us.

Does anyone remember Beslan?^

Yes Torge. I also remember Dunblane.

And frankly, I'll not take lessons in how the world works from someone who writes We aren't a DEMOCRACY, but a REPUBLIC ??‍♀️

Torge, suicides are still gun deaths and very sad they are too.
No doubt we would have far more suicides in the UK if guns were readily available.
Who hasn't been depressed? A strong drink, temporary loss of reason, reach for a gun and there is no going back.
Unlike a premeditated suicide which needs planning.

My ER Doc friend (40-year on the job) seen more kids die from choking from hot dogs than from gun shots. You may call BS on that, but I don't care.

Was that the same ER doctor friend who you mentioned a few weeks ago? The one who shared your view that covid had been blown out of proportion and if I remember correctly he’d seen more deaths from VD than covid?

Making laws to ban something doesnt mean the society follows suit immediately, it takes years for compliance

Examples
1. Smoking
2. Dowry
3. Forced marriages

You get the drift

Unfortunately, bad information has been sent out so much that everyone believes it because they see it repeated so much. In 2021, more kids died from car accidents than being shot.

Shooting stats are skewed. They lump suicides in with murders. Do you think that someone who doesn't have a firearm will not kill themselves? If you do, you are naive.

My ER Doc friend (40-year on the job) seen more kids die from choking from hot dogs than from gun shots. You may call BS on that, but I don't care.

It's sad that some of you have made up your minds. Some haven't lived in this country, some may have only limited experience of living in a limited area themselves and others from what they hear from other people. Nothing what I may say will change your minds and I really don't care to. I just want to share my thoughts on the matter.

And yes, we do protect our children. Some schools and areas are better than others. Like some of you, they have the thought process of it won't happen here.

I hope you are prepared to protect your children from evil people in the world. Does anyone remember Beslan?

Volver may I point out King George III was forced out of the U.S. and in the War of 1812, it was done again.

That does not mean we are not entitled to an opinion about how the USA has developed since then and yes, we are allowed to express our shock and outrage at these tragic events occurring in that country.

torge

Volver may I point out King George III was forced out of the U.S. and in the War of 1812, it was done again.

I hope you don't have a situation that you have to defend yourself in your own home. No one should be put in that position. But it is my understanding that in Britain, you would be the one prosecuted if you harm/kill the intruder in self-defense.

The War of Independence was won with the help of the French army. In many ways it was more the traditional ding dong between the British and the French and a minor skirmish in the eyes of the people over here.

Here you go: www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders

Shooting someone with an assault rifle probably doesn't come under the definition of reasonable force. Not in civilised countries, anyway

Lots of handbags on here today!