Politically homeless? Is there hope?

LizzieDrip

^I think we need a blend of ideas which take the poor and business growth into account^

Isn’t this what we currently have in Labour???

I can't say I've noticed Labour coming up with many ideas; they tend to say what they wouldn't do rather than what they would. Furthermore, there are still a lot of the hard left within the party and I have no doubt they will push to the fore if anything happens to Starmer.

As Doodledog says

"For me it’s because they are in thrall to Stonewall, would put women’s rights behind those of transwomen, and are being massively disingenuous when they say that women can have penises and men cervixes. I wouldn’t vote Green, Lib Dem or SNP (if in Scotland) either, for the same reasons, and don’t know a single feminist who is not struggling with the dilemma."

I would normally vote Lib dem or Labour but until they see sense on this issue I can not bring myself to do so. There is so way that I would vote Tory, especially for the ghastly MP we have here. So in effect, I am disenfranchised.

I can't say I've noticed Labour coming up with many ideas; they tend to say what they wouldn't do rather than what they would

What about the windfall tax Labour have been promoting for months - now taken up by the Conservatives.

In response to the so-called feminist opposition to Labour, I would argue that they risk splitting the Labour vote and, thereby, handing power to the Conservatives again. Is it worth another 5 years of Conservative rule?

".....there are still a lot of the hard left within the party and I have no doubt they will push to the fore if anything happens to Starmer."

You know the make up of the party intimately and what their plans are then?

I could equally say "there are a lot of hard right, racists and wannabe fascists in the Tory party" and they are hell bent on seizing control.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

Whilst we spend all our time denigrating alternative parties we will get nowhere. I find it hard to imagine a scenario worse than we have now......

garnet25

As Doodledog says

"For me it’s because they are in thrall to Stonewall, would put women’s rights behind those of transwomen, and are being massively disingenuous when they say that women can have penises and men cervixes. I wouldn’t vote Green, Lib Dem or SNP (if in Scotland) either, for the same reasons, and don’t know a single feminist who is not struggling with the dilemma."

I would normally vote Lib dem or Labour but until they see sense on this issue I can not bring myself to do so. There is so way that I would vote Tory, especially for the ghastly MP we have here. So in effect, I am disenfranchised.

You're not disenfranchised. You've just decided not to vote.

Different thing altogether.

Also, I'm a feminist. I'm not struggling.

Whilst we spend all our time denigrating alternative parties we will get nowhere. I find it hard to imagine a scenario worse than we have now.....

Totally agree Rameses. ???

Left or hard left as we are called are socialists who want the policies put forward in 201719 labour manifesto, many people who didn't know these were labour polices thought they were good too.

I don't trust Starmer he went back on his word about the 10 pledges and unity. No one knows what he stands for.

Blair and Mandelson backed Starmer they don't now why?

As Mandelson says Wes Streeting would make a labour leader he would not need focus groups to know what to do.

Blair did not want a socialist labour government wonder why?

Successful Scandinavian countries have a labour socialist government

LizzieDrip

^I can't say I've noticed Labour coming up with many ideas; they tend to say what they wouldn't do rather than what they would^

What about the windfall tax Labour have been promoting for months - now taken up by the Conservatives.

In response to the so-called feminist opposition to Labour, I would argue that they risk splitting the Labour vote and, thereby, handing power to the Conservatives again. Is it worth another 5 years of Conservative rule?

What about the windfall tax Labour have been promoting for months - now taken up by the Conservatives.

Hardly a new idea though! There have been so many times when they have been asked what they would do when they just haven't answered. I hoped to be impressed with Starmer, particularly after Corbyn but I'm just not. The feminist issue is a problem for me too.

Me too Volver! I’m a feminist and I’m not struggling. I know that this country cannot cope with another Conservative government so, if we want to get rid of the right wing fascists, we must stick together and support Labour. Put other issues aside for the sake of the greater good.

Successful Scandinavian countries have a labour socialist government.

I did a bit of a Google.

Norway - Social Democrats
Sweden - Social Democrats
Denmark - Social Democrats
Iceland - Liberal
Finland - Social Democrats

LizzieDrip

Me too Volver! I’m a feminist and I’m not struggling. I know that this country cannot cope with another Conservative government so, if we want to get rid of the right wing fascists, we must stick together and support Labour. Put other issues aside for the sake of the greater good.

??

I am not struggling with that issue I am beyond furious over people within the labour party talking utter nonsense which will be used throughout the next election to beat them around the head. It shows contempt for those who actually need a labour government. Utter self indulgence.

It's not clear who you were aiming at, volver, but in case it's me, I haven't decided not to vote. I've decided to listen to TB and his cronies and see what they have to offer. If they offer an alternative to the Tories which accepts women are women, then I may very well vote for them.

I know you don't believe that people should put this issue ahead of others, but many, many women across all of the 'captured' parties are doing so, whether you like it or not. I don't understand why the parties concerned are not waking up to this, and at least talking to us.

Sneers and insults will never change my mind about anything; but as I keep saying, if someone lays out a proper argument which doesn't want women to give up rights in favour of men's wants, and doesn't rely on 'they just know', and 'it's a feeling' then I will happily listen. It's never happened, though.

The lack of dialogue, although I understand the fear of being attacked and bullied by the TRAs, is all the more reason to jump ship, as it implies that the people concerned don't believe it anyway (how can they?) and are just parroting Stonewall's policies because of fear of being bullied. Much as I respect Keir Starmer and others in many ways, and much as I agree with many of their policies, I will not be patronised or sidelined like this by people who are supposed to represent me.

I keep cross-posting with you Galaxy! I'm not copying your posts, honestly

LizzieDrip

^Whilst we spend all our time denigrating alternative parties we will get nowhere. I find it hard to imagine a scenario worse than we have now.....^

Totally agree Rameses. ???

I will continue to denigrate those who spout obviously incorrect ideas about women for as long as they do it.

I agree that we need the Tories out, but it feels as though all of the opposition parties have got together to prevent this from happening.

Mmm that's what they all say doodle .
Actually I think we probably disagree a bit with regard to the Labour Party. I want them to stop talking about that subject right now. But I guess it's way too late for that.

I was aiming at Garnet25, who said she was disenfranchised.

Also, refuting the idea you put forward that there isn't a single feminist who isn't struggling with this. Well there are two on this thread.

The self indulgence that Galaxy mentions above is the need to drag every political thread possible into the trans debate. While people are scared of dying of hunger and the cold and our democratic institutions are threatened by the worst government in living memory.

You can vote for who you like, nobody's stopping you. But implications about people who don't agree with you about the relative importance of different topics, and claiming that you are being sneered at, that won't win anybody over.

I agree that we need the Tories out, but it feels as though all of the opposition parties have got together to prevent this from happening.

Sorry, but are you serious? You can't be serious!

It couldn't be that all the parties but the Tories don't agree with your view? Which is allowed, of course? And if you don't want to vote for them then don't vote for them.

The labour party have handed it to the Tory party on a plate though volver thats what I am beyond irritated with. Its amazed me that it took so long for Johnson to seize on it, but he has now.

To use another example my constituency is of the 'red wall' Labour for a thousand years and turned Tory at the last election. Would you like to know what the ex labour mp is currently doing. Posting all over social media about the evils of the Jubilee celebration. Its this utter lack of understanding of the people who used to vote Labour. Do I wish didnt have a Royal family - yes, do I think the Labour party should be doing anything at the moment but nodding and waving a flag - no.

OK then. You'd prefer candidates to just say the things that win them the elections, but not the things they believe in? Not my idea of a trustworthy politician, sorry.

volver

^I agree that we need the Tories out, but it feels as though all of the opposition parties have got together to prevent this from happening.^

Sorry, but are you serious? You can't be serious!

It couldn't be that all the parties but the Tories don't agree with your view? Which is allowed, of course? And if you don't want to vote for them then don't vote for them.

I will vote for whichever party I choose, thanks. I am happy to explain my reasons for doing so, and there is no need for 'you can't be serious' comments. I am perfectly serious.

I meant it when I said that I don't know any (offline) feminists who are not struggling with who to vote for. In my area this includes Labour, Lib Dem and Green voters, and I have several friends in Scotland who are debating whether to vote SNP, because this issue is more important to them than the independence they also value.

I didn't say that the parties 'have' got together, but that it feels as though they have done so, as the opposition to the Tories has been massively eroded by this issue, which does matter to a lot of women. Not because we are sheep, not because we don't care about other policies, but because this one does matter to us. Believe it. Don't believe it. It's no skin off my nose either way. It may or may not be representative of women across the country, but it is true of the women in my social circle, for what that's worth, which is all I was saying.

I really wish the LP would talk to us instead of pretending to think that women have penises and men cervixes. It makes them look foolish, and shows contempt for their voters.

I prefer them to understand the priorities of the electorate not for them to try and shape the electorate into what they want them to be.

Politicians should represent the views of their constituents. If they stop doing that, they don't get the votes, which is what may well happen over this issue. That's democracy. They can't just impose a point of view on the people they represent, and then refuse to discuss it.

It is a centrist CONFERENCE - not a party.

Yes, I realised that, Wwmk2, but it looks more like preparation for a centrist party than ideas for... ideas for who or what?
I'll keep an eye on it, though.