Politically homeless? Is there hope?

LizzieDrip

^Whilst we spend all our time denigrating alternative parties we will get nowhere. I find it hard to imagine a scenario worse than we have now.....^

Totally agree Rameses. ???

I will continue to denigrate those who spout obviously incorrect ideas about women for as long as they do it.

I agree that we need the Tories out, but it feels as though all of the opposition parties have got together to prevent this from happening.

I keep cross-posting with you Galaxy! I'm not copying your posts, honestly

It's not clear who you were aiming at, volver, but in case it's me, I haven't decided not to vote. I've decided to listen to TB and his cronies and see what they have to offer. If they offer an alternative to the Tories which accepts women are women, then I may very well vote for them.

I know you don't believe that people should put this issue ahead of others, but many, many women across all of the 'captured' parties are doing so, whether you like it or not. I don't understand why the parties concerned are not waking up to this, and at least talking to us.

Sneers and insults will never change my mind about anything; but as I keep saying, if someone lays out a proper argument which doesn't want women to give up rights in favour of men's wants, and doesn't rely on 'they just know', and 'it's a feeling' then I will happily listen. It's never happened, though.

The lack of dialogue, although I understand the fear of being attacked and bullied by the TRAs, is all the more reason to jump ship, as it implies that the people concerned don't believe it anyway (how can they?) and are just parroting Stonewall's policies because of fear of being bullied. Much as I respect Keir Starmer and others in many ways, and much as I agree with many of their policies, I will not be patronised or sidelined like this by people who are supposed to represent me.

I am not struggling with that issue I am beyond furious over people within the labour party talking utter nonsense which will be used throughout the next election to beat them around the head. It shows contempt for those who actually need a labour government. Utter self indulgence.

LizzieDrip

Me too Volver! I’m a feminist and I’m not struggling. I know that this country cannot cope with another Conservative government so, if we want to get rid of the right wing fascists, we must stick together and support Labour. Put other issues aside for the sake of the greater good.

??

Successful Scandinavian countries have a labour socialist government.

I did a bit of a Google.

Norway - Social Democrats
Sweden - Social Democrats
Denmark - Social Democrats
Iceland - Liberal
Finland - Social Democrats

Me too Volver! I’m a feminist and I’m not struggling. I know that this country cannot cope with another Conservative government so, if we want to get rid of the right wing fascists, we must stick together and support Labour. Put other issues aside for the sake of the greater good.

LizzieDrip

^I can't say I've noticed Labour coming up with many ideas; they tend to say what they wouldn't do rather than what they would^

What about the windfall tax Labour have been promoting for months - now taken up by the Conservatives.

In response to the so-called feminist opposition to Labour, I would argue that they risk splitting the Labour vote and, thereby, handing power to the Conservatives again. Is it worth another 5 years of Conservative rule?

What about the windfall tax Labour have been promoting for months - now taken up by the Conservatives.

Hardly a new idea though! There have been so many times when they have been asked what they would do when they just haven't answered. I hoped to be impressed with Starmer, particularly after Corbyn but I'm just not. The feminist issue is a problem for me too.

Left or hard left as we are called are socialists who want the policies put forward in 201719 labour manifesto, many people who didn't know these were labour polices thought they were good too.

I don't trust Starmer he went back on his word about the 10 pledges and unity. No one knows what he stands for.

Blair and Mandelson backed Starmer they don't now why?

As Mandelson says Wes Streeting would make a labour leader he would not need focus groups to know what to do.

Blair did not want a socialist labour government wonder why?

Successful Scandinavian countries have a labour socialist government

Whilst we spend all our time denigrating alternative parties we will get nowhere. I find it hard to imagine a scenario worse than we have now.....

Totally agree Rameses. ???

garnet25

As Doodledog says

"For me it’s because they are in thrall to Stonewall, would put women’s rights behind those of transwomen, and are being massively disingenuous when they say that women can have penises and men cervixes. I wouldn’t vote Green, Lib Dem or SNP (if in Scotland) either, for the same reasons, and don’t know a single feminist who is not struggling with the dilemma."

I would normally vote Lib dem or Labour but until they see sense on this issue I can not bring myself to do so. There is so way that I would vote Tory, especially for the ghastly MP we have here. So in effect, I am disenfranchised.

You're not disenfranchised. You've just decided not to vote.

Different thing altogether.

Also, I'm a feminist. I'm not struggling.

".....there are still a lot of the hard left within the party and I have no doubt they will push to the fore if anything happens to Starmer."

You know the make up of the party intimately and what their plans are then?

I could equally say "there are a lot of hard right, racists and wannabe fascists in the Tory party" and they are hell bent on seizing control.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

Whilst we spend all our time denigrating alternative parties we will get nowhere. I find it hard to imagine a scenario worse than we have now......

I can't say I've noticed Labour coming up with many ideas; they tend to say what they wouldn't do rather than what they would

What about the windfall tax Labour have been promoting for months - now taken up by the Conservatives.

In response to the so-called feminist opposition to Labour, I would argue that they risk splitting the Labour vote and, thereby, handing power to the Conservatives again. Is it worth another 5 years of Conservative rule?

As Doodledog says

"For me it’s because they are in thrall to Stonewall, would put women’s rights behind those of transwomen, and are being massively disingenuous when they say that women can have penises and men cervixes. I wouldn’t vote Green, Lib Dem or SNP (if in Scotland) either, for the same reasons, and don’t know a single feminist who is not struggling with the dilemma."

I would normally vote Lib dem or Labour but until they see sense on this issue I can not bring myself to do so. There is so way that I would vote Tory, especially for the ghastly MP we have here. So in effect, I am disenfranchised.

LizzieDrip

^I think we need a blend of ideas which take the poor and business growth into account^

Isn’t this what we currently have in Labour???

I can't say I've noticed Labour coming up with many ideas; they tend to say what they wouldn't do rather than what they would. Furthermore, there are still a lot of the hard left within the party and I have no doubt they will push to the fore if anything happens to Starmer.

LizzieDrip

Please, please, please tell me why you don’t like / trust the current Labour Party? I really don’t understand it. The comments people make about needing a party for the people etc fit completely with Labour as it is. TB, or anyone for that matter, diluting the Labour vote is exactly what the Conservatives want. I am so confused - please tell me WHY you can’t support the current Labour party?

For me it’s because they are in thrall to Stonewall, would put women’s rights behind those of transwomen, and are being massively disingenuous when they say that women can have penises and men cervixes. I wouldn’t vote Green, Lib Dem or SNP (if in Scotland) either, for the same reasons, and don’t know a single feminist who is not struggling with the dilemma.

As an atheist, *I am probably about to upset people of faith by saying that I don't trust any fanatically religious politician and believe firmly in secular politics.

Blair was an evangelist for a considerable time and then converted to Catholicism in the mid 2000s. He claimed he was converted by Cherie.

In 2009 he told an Italian audience, "In seeking this path of truth, lit by God's love and paved by God's grace, the church can be the insistent spiritual voice that makes globalisation our servant, not our master." Hmmm.....

*I have no axe to grind over people of faith. It's just not for me and, as I have written, I believe politics should be secular.

I fully support the .Labour Party, been a member for over 50 years with the exception of the .Corbyn period

I think we need a blend of ideas which take the poor and business growth into account

Isn’t this what we currently have in Labour???

Please, please, please tell me why you don’t like / trust the current Labour Party? I really don’t understand it. The comments people make about needing a party for the people etc fit completely with Labour as it is. TB, or anyone for that matter, diluting the Labour vote is exactly what the Conservatives want. I am so confused - please tell me WHY you can’t support the current Labour party?

We need a centre left Labour Party, the days of pigeon lofts, whippets and Dai caps have gone,

Labour is dead ,well inScotland at least .Before the council elections Sarwar was shouting there'll be no coalitons after the elections Labour have joined WITH the Tories to oust the SNP ...Who WON the votes in their constituencies .So vote Labour GET Tory .
Why would any self respecting person accept that?
Surely we mark our x in the knowledge that the biggest number WINS ,not no 2 and 3 ..and 4 .

I feel homeless just now because of the gender woo, so yes, I’ll listen to Blair and his team. I can’t face the thought of more Tory lies and incompetence, and am disillusioned with Labour. I would rather have a left of centre government, but I’ll take what we can get to get rid of this lot, as they are creeping ever closer to fascism.

Chestnut

It doesn't matter what Blair says, I DON'T TRUST HIM! He is in it for himself.

Yep. Always was, always will be. I did trust him once. It's his own fault people no longer do.

It doesn't matter what Blair says, I DON'T TRUST HIM! He is in it for himself.