Speaking the truth about brexit

Never forget that the Leave faction had better use of social media and the knowledge and understanding of its use by Dominic Cummings and the Remain faction sat back and just let it happen without really fighting to stay, as Cameron only went for the referendum to shut up his back bench Eurosceptics. That was lazy, it should not have been left to voters to do the research. Theresa May couldn’t get an agreement and Johnson lied as usual and screwed up big time. Also remember that General de Gaulle said “Non!” to Britain joining in the first place as he knew we’d never stay long. The writing was on the wall when we didn’t adopt the Euro, that was obvious. Plus Cameron was so distant from the temperature of the country that for some the exit vote was a way of “giving it to the man”.
The mess we are in shows how useless a little country Britain actually is - trying to punch above our weight for years. We could have stayed in the single market, or had the same agreement as Norway and we would have been much better off.

so the City could continue

Dinahmo

The main reason Brexit was rushed through was the EU law being brought in January 2020 to address tax avoidance and money laundering.

Yes, it was so the. It’s could continue to .sunder the dodgy Russian money, along comes the Ukraine sanctions they lost it anyway, disaster after disaster.

varian

It is hard to imagine anyone who has any grasp of the changes caused by brexit? honestly believing that brexit was ever a good idea

I could not agree more.
Some people will never admit they were ill-informed or even wrong.
If I could switch passports, I would have no qualms in doing so.

volver

Whitewavemark2

?

I read the Demon Haunted World about 25 years ago. It'll change your life

I used to avidly watch him every time I could on TV

The best comment I saw about Brexit was the fisherman in Cornwall who voted to leave the EU then maintained on camera that his grants and subsidies wouldn't be affected by leaving Europe. That said it all.

To be honest I voted to remain I still feel we should have. Covid-19 needs to be taken into consideration too though. Things could well have been different if we didn't have that to contend with too. It's too late to go back, the conditions that would be imposed would likely be even worse.

Whitewavemark2

?

I read the Demon Haunted World about 25 years ago. It'll change your life

What do you think halfpint1?

Does somebody have to hate somebody else?

It’s been a personal disaster for us - my daughter has a Swedish partner and they moved to Sweden after Brexit - her partner was made to feel un- wanted by the narrative here , after living and working in the UK for 23 years - it makes me feel so angry ‘ little Britain’ looking inward not outward.

so who hates who?

Just reading that the EU offered to extend the period before the U.K. had to leave in order that we could better cope with covid.

Johnson naturally turned it down.

Fool

?

The main reason Brexit was rushed through was the EU law being brought in January 2020 to address tax avoidance and money laundering.

This is rather a typical Brexit thread.

People who voted to remain coming along with facts and figures, well rounded arguments and illustrations of the lies that were told.

And those who voted to leave shouting about "us lot", whingers, how the Europeans hate us and how it would have been fine if it hadn't been for Covid. And that we should just wait for a decade or two and it will all be fine.

(Honourable exceptions are those who now understand that their Leave vote has been a disaster.)

M0nica

Whose truth are you talking about? Truth unfortunately is generally relative.

Can you please give us a list of the advantages that you consider have come about from Brexit?

These things are all in the public domain. Why do so many people not know this stuff and persist in spouting and applauding things that are clearly not true?

Straight answer - because they are ignorant and pigheaded. Apart from those who have realised that they made a mistake who have been brave in admitting it.

Whether or not Brexit was a good idea in principle, and whatever your personal feelings on the matter, it's become clear that it has been managed in the most disastrous way possible, and has produced a complete absence of any benefits whatsoever.
On the other hand our illustrious P.M. has been gibbering about banana plantations in Birmingham (yes, really!), so you never know.

The idea that we couldn’t make any of our laws us also complete twaddle. We only had 5% of our laws from the EU and we were involved in passing them- they weren’t imposed on us- we made our own U.K. laws on health , education, policing and just about everything else. Why do people still believe this guff?

Yes, Brexit was all about snappy slogans. Take back control, Get Brexit done, Oven-ready deal... and the promise of £350m a week for the NHS when it was done. How easily voters were reeled in.
Wise move, Anthony Gormley. My DDs and grandsons have recently been granted German citizenship because their paternal grandfather/great grandfather was German and lost his citizenship in the war when he came to Britain as a refugee. It feels appropriate that a wrong has at last been put right and it opens up travel/work options as EU citizens.

Can any of the pro Brexit people tell me something positive that Brexit has brought them?

I would be genuinely interested to know as currently there seems to be only distress in many areas.

Personally I feel Brexit was the biggest crime inflicted on us. What was promised has not been delivered. As far as I see, the Brexiteers were manipulated with promises of more cash and Rule Britannia and hoodwinked and they can't admit it!

We have lost so many benefits by being part of the bigger picture in this part of the world. Now we are just a wee isolated island that is sinking!!
Most reports are about how less-off Britain is now, not just financially but culturally and more worryingly the extreme right is growing.

I'm in Scotland and we had it forced upon us and I can't wait to get independence and back to be part of Europe. And I hear more and more people here , who were against independence, wanting it now. Ultimately Brexit will be responsible for splitting up the Union.

It's a most terrible thing that has happened ...as Polly Toynbee says, 'A self inflicted wound'.

Varien. maybe you remember Thatcher reducing the number of civil servants. She sacked all the cleaners and contracted cleaning services out to large multiples, The cleanliness was reduced and employees had poorer conditions of pay and work. Is that what Johnson wants to do?

As for Bexit, I only know of 2 people who voted to leave. One of them is an immigrant doctor who says we have too many immigrants in UK.

I definitely think some people here should refer to the education thread and how an educated electorate makes good decisions. Here we have some great examples to work from.

Gormley is not relevant except as an example of the many Brits who have managed to get an EU passport through ancestry (like Farage) to help with working and living in the EU or who have moved their business to an EU country (like Rees-Mogg's investment business). The main point is that Brexit was largely a ploy to get Johnson elected and it is a disaster for many UK businesses and individuals. The fantasy of sovereignty has little meaning in a highly interconnected world. All these little trade deals (like with the Faeroes) are trivial in comparison to trade with the EU which Johnson has failed to sustain. Look at all the extra paperwork and the mess with Northern Ireland which Johnson lied about (no checks in the Irish sea. Really?). And the trade deal with the USA is going nowhere fast - they are not interested. Johnson has been an enormous disaster for the UK and the sooner he goes, the better.

Gransnet, for some reason, stopped sending me notifications but then just as suddenly started sending them again. Wonderful to come back to a stonking Brexit debate. But where are Lemongrove and Day 6, the true Brexit believers? I wonder if they have changed their minds.

Like Volver I still feel sick with anger about Brexit. I feel so angry with David Cameron for embarking on the referendum in the first place in such a careless way, with no safeguards at all and since then it has just got worse and worse. And tomorrow we break international law in breaking a treaty set up by B Johnson and his side kick Lord Frost - the wonderful "oven-ready" deal.

It is so good to read so many cogent arguments against Brexit.