Speaking the truth about brexit

... "speaking the truth about Brexit"...

The Express - in a desperate attempt to shore up support for Johnson - has suggested, no stated, that a left-wing government will lead us straight back into the EU. This is what you will get if you go against the man and the party is ousted! Apparently!

Scare tactics for Brexiters. Who - from the reports and investigations I've read so far - number virtually equally among both Left and Right.

Why does this myth persist? I wish people would stop this nonsense... some of the most ardent Brexiters are working-class, Labourites. Witness the Red Wall who lent their allegiance to Johnson in order to get Brexit "done".

Not to mention the fact that re-joining would require another referendum, and years and years of negotiations. Would the EU even consider it at the moment? I think they'd want to wait a few years to see if the UK were ever likely to become 'team-players'. We haven't been, and De Gaulle suspected as much, which is why he gave his famous reply to our request.

So, onwards and upwards with the trade war with the EU... that will have such a positive effect on the national economy ?!

This just out. Confirmation the NI Protocol Bill is coming on Monday.

Rory Stewart
@RoryStewartUK

This - breaking of international law - is the most dangerous and disgraceful of all the shameful things Boris Johnson has tried to do in his many attempts to create distractions and cling to power.
It will be bad for Northern Ireland + worse for the UK’s international reputation

Whitewavemark2

We need to join the SM and CU. Cut business expense at a stroke and expand growth through trade.

Of course we should never have left the single market with common standards and regulations, if we rejoin that will mean obeying EU regulations including, freedom of movement.
In practice it means the EEA formerly EFTA, each member has its own deal for certain sectors all regulated by EU.

It’s like being a EU member without any voting rights, there is no chance whatever with the current Tory government, a different administration may well rejoin, it would probably mean another referendum to achieve membership.

If you want to send a gift to anyone in the EU don’t order from a mainland U.K. firm, order from the ROI or NI, the recipient won’t have to pay tax on it - not good news for most British businesses, but all thanks to Brexit.

We need to join the SM and CU. Cut business expense at a stroke and expand growth through trade.

Thee are only 2 regions in the U.K. which show any economic growth- London and Northern Ireland. London is still a multinational city, NI is still in the EU single market so businesses there are doing well.

Whitewavemark2

I see Ukraine has been given candidate status to join the EU.

Good news.

Gillycats

DaisyAnne well George Osbourne for one. He quoted an increase of 500,000 unemployed. We’ve got the lowest unemployment figures in a very long time. We have a better say in what benefits us eg horticulture imports and bio security. All of which you’ll dismiss no doubt so I won’t waste anymore time.

Growstuff - yes they are elected but not by the electorate. Hence it is not a democratic vote. We have no say in who is running the commission.

Not much point in me giving you an answer then, is their Gillycats. You simply don't want to hear other views although you expect us to take yours seriously.

However, I think your view of "the lowest unemployment figures" is, once again, very Johnsonian. There are areas of low or no unemployment but the areas of higher and high unemployment still exist in the promised "Levelling up" constituencies.

I don't think Osborne lied, although it was certainly spin or exaggeration for effect. The Leave group went far beyond that.

We have by no means seen the end of the effects of Brexit. With the UK and Russia being the only countries forecast to have no growth, how do you justify us being in that position? The IMF says Brexit will hold back export growth (although maybe you think your opinion trumps their knowledge). They also said Brexit will continue to make pandemic-related labour supply "scarringly" worse by reducing immigration.

Thinking this is a good thing is extremely short-sighted. What do you think will happen if businesses cannot find enough employees? They will shrink or even close. They will then not be making as much money. Slowly but surely - unless this Brexit government stops behaving like children and actually does some work - unemployment will increase. I cannot tell you how much I hope George Osbourne is never proved right and how much I dread that he will be.

Well this makes depressing reading.
www.itv.com/news/2022-06-09/brexit-cost-the-uk-billions-in-lost-trade-and-tax-revenues-research-finds
It’s not just the view of lefty Gransnetters after all.

vegansrock We may have full employment but we’ve got staff shortages which are crippling the NHS , travel and agriculture .

Indeed, a journalist from that left wing rag the Financial Times was on the radio talking about this. The issue is that in the statistics the definition of unemployed is not working but seeking work. That's fine, but it turns out there has been a huge leap in the number of people who have stopped seeking work. He mentioned several groups but the largest was men over 50. He then went on to say that the number of people in work is actually quite low just now.

The Brexit vote was won by a 3.78% lead over the vote to Remain so as it was that close, I would expect plenty of opinions on both sides and why not?

I am still waiting to hear what the advantages of Brexit are, or likely to be. I feel that we are fortunate in having many posters on here who know their subject backing it up with references when appropriate.

Yes as Boris said we should draw a line over the lies, deceit and false promises of the past and move on, so that we can produce more lies, deceit and false promises in the future.

I see Ukraine has been given candidate status to join the EU.

... and

Finally, the irony. I make a comment about the incessant political criticism which is rife on GN, which often borders on bullying by the left of lefts and anti-Brexit bods on here, and guess what? Yep, they’re out in force!

"Incessant political criticism" is very much part of our constitutional and institutional way of life. It goes back centuries. Pick up any great 18th and 19th century literature - it's full of it. Look at some of the periodicals of the 19th century - they are also rife with political criticism.

It is our tradition - it doesn't matter which party holds the keys to number 10 - the media, all of it, will criticise, too. And so will people.

If people are negatively affected by government policies, they have every right to complain and criticise.

... and Brexit is condemned by both Left and Right. And calling it "whingeing" is an attempt to invalidate the criticism.

Since '75, the Eurosceptics have been banging the drum - and they won. Now it's our turn. And we're not going to keep quiet just to appease Brexiters, just as Brexiters didn't keep quiet to appease Remainers. Brexit is not "done" - far from it - as Rees-Mogg quietly explained, it may take decades for the benefits to show themselves... and he's been appointed to find them...

All people do these days is whinge

Yes, Farage never stopped whingeing. Whilst happily taking the pay, pension and perks from those he whinged about.

Gillycats

DaisyAnne well George Osbourne for one. He quoted an increase of 500,000 unemployed. We’ve got the lowest unemployment figures in a very long time. We have a better say in what benefits us eg horticulture imports and bio security. All of which you’ll dismiss no doubt so I won’t waste anymore time.

Growstuff - yes they are elected but not by the electorate. Hence it is not a democratic vote. We have no say in who is running the commission.

Yes, we do!!

Commissioners are selected by individual member states, whose representatives are elected. Individuals don't have any say in who our Prime Minister or cabinet members are.

You're confusing the administrators who work for the EU, who don't have any say in legislation. They are just the same as the UK civil service and (increasingly) special advisers and people such as Zac Goldsmith, who is a Minister of State, despite being kicked out by the voters in his constituency.

Not only the above, but the EU is more democratic than the UK parliament because it has PR. That's how Farage managed to be an MEP for so many years.

In the UK with its FPTP system, it is always the case (especially when the government has a huge majority) that a substantial percentage of the population is not represented and doesn't have any voice. The opposition has no power at all.

In theory, every single eligible voter in the UK could vote and every single seat could be won by just one vote by the same party. That party would claim an overwhelming mandate to govern even though it only had a majority of 630 individual voters. That's not democratic!

Also we don’t elect the Prime Minister, the members of the political party elect the leader.

Gillycats ^ We have no say in who is running the commission.^

..and again. The Commission is not the decision-making body it is the Civil Service. You have a say in who is on the Parliament and the Council. Who have you elected in the UK civil service?

(And to to repeat someone else's tangential point, who have you elected to the House of Lords?)

Lots of dire news and predictions about the U.K. economy. UK will be the worst performing economy in the G20 Why is that? The following organisations give their explanation -
The World Bank - Brexit
OECD - Brexit
The IMF - Brexit
Most respected economists - Brexit
Many business leaders - Brexit
The Tories - Ukraine.

We were told we would have a Norway style deal but Farage - lie
We were told we would have more money for public services -lie
We were told it would be the easiest deal in history -lie
We were told the EU was about to collapse - lie
We were told trade would not be affected - lie
We were told we’d all be better off- lie
We were told immigration would fall - lie
I could go on ……
We may have full employment but we’ve got staff shortages which are crippling the NHS , travel and agriculture .

DaisyAnne well George Osbourne for one. He quoted an increase of 500,000 unemployed. We’ve got the lowest unemployment figures in a very long time. We have a better say in what benefits us eg horticulture imports and bio security. All of which you’ll dismiss no doubt so I won’t waste anymore time.

Growstuff - yes they are elected but not by the electorate. Hence it is not a democratic vote. We have no say in who is running the commission.

HousePlantQueen: Jacob Ress-Mogg lists our ability to have high powered vacuum cleaners as second on the massive list of Brexit benefits.

Good, I guess British dust is of a superior quality and is now much happier. Just as the same man explained that our fish are now a lot happier because they are truly British.

DaisyAnne well you keep churning out unsubstantiated stuff all the time to be fair.

Unlike this patently untrue post, I value honesty Gillycats. I think you would be hard-pressed to find posts where I do not quote the source. "Unsubstantiated" they are not.

Your posts seem to work to very Johnsonian standards.

1. One of many lies was the claim that unemployment would go through the roof.
As you are now into substantiated claims perhaps you could tell me who made that claim and when. A link would help.

I'll come back to the rest when we have dealt with this.

Greta

Well, growstuff, I've asked several leave voters how our membership of the EU made their lives difficult. I have never had an answer.

Jacob Ress-Mogg lists our ability to have high powered vacuum cleaners as second on the massive list of Brexit benefits.