Speaking the truth about brexit

You stated that you think this thread has run its course.

Where I come from "run its course" means that its come to an end and there shouldn't be any more posting, or that what posting there is is a waste of time. Yet I'm the one being accused of trying to limit what people post.

I need to think that one through a bit. ??‍♀️

volver

Not your decision to say if a thread has run its course. If you don't want to take part any more, that's entirely different.

Are you truly saying you may limit what I say on here? "I think" is an opinion. It certainly isn't a decision for anyone else.

I truly think (opinion) that if GN has one rule "You may not make personal attacks" this forum would be a better place.

I find it ironic that you are angry with those who voted to leave the EU, yet you are vociferously for Scotland leaving the Union?
Some might think that is illogical.

I find it perfectly logical that the Scots, having been dragged out of the EU against their will, find it attractive to leave the union that hasn't worked in their interests to join a union that does...

volver

God, this makes me angry. I have no time for people saying they voted for what they thought was right. It was wrong and ill thought out and misguided. Should have paid more attention.

"I voted for my grandchildren's future".

Messed that up then.

I find it ironic that you are angry with those who voted to leave the EU, yet you are vociferously for Scotland leaving the Union?
Some might think that is illogical.

Surely some in Scotland may think leaving the RUK might be wrong and ill thought out and misguided?

And none of us knows what the future holds.

Perhaps we should all be working together to reach a solution with the EU.

A reminder. Cameron to the HoC 22/2/16. REsults of negotiations with the European Council

The fourth area in which we wanted to make significant changes was to protect our country from further European political integration and to increase powers for our national Parliament. Ever since we joined, Europe has been on the path to something called ever closer union. It means a political union. We have never liked it; we have never wanted it. Now Britain will be permanently and legally excluded from it. The text says that the treaties will be changed to make it clear that

“the Treaty references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.”

^So as a result of this negotiation, Britain can never be part of a European superstate.^

The Council also agreed that ever closer union, which has been referred to in previous judgments of the European Court of Justice, does not offer a legal basis for extending the scope of any provisions of the treaties or EU secondary legislation. People used to talk about a multi-speed Europe; now we have a clear agreement that different countries are not only travelling at different speeds but ultimately heading to different destinations. I would argue that is fundamental change in the way this organisation works.

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm160222/debtext/160222-0001.htm

Truth?

Not your decision to say if a thread has run its course. If you don't want to take part any more, that's entirely different.

certainly!

It has certain run it's course for me when people start personal attacks volver. That is my decision.

DaisyAnne

I think that when a thread comes down to personal attacks rather evidence about the thread topic, it has probably run its course.

Twice in the last few days DaisyAnne you've posted that you think a thread has run its course. Not your decision, either time.

It’s time to stop blaming people who exercised their free vote and look to the future for solutions, and I do not mean just rejoining the EU at any cost.

Should we just move on? Should we just draw a line in the sand? Are people just tired of this now, and want us to get on with the job?

Where have I heard that before?

I will never stop blaming those who voted for this debacle. Never. That doesn't mean we don't try to find the best solution right now, but I will never stop blaming people who voted for this, whatever self-justifying excuses they come up with. It was the wrong thing to do.

I think that when a thread comes down to personal attacks rather evidence about the thread topic, it has probably run its course.

Other than a pound of flesh from each and everyone who voted to leave what more do you want?

Many have said that it hasn’t gone how they envisaged, many have offered opinions on compromises.

It’s time to stop blaming people who exercised their free vote and look to the future for solutions, and I do not mean just rejoining the EU at any cost.

Isn't this thread about truth and beliefs?

What you believe to be a "fact" isn't always true and to be honest, your record of identifying "facts" in referenda isn't so good right now.

volver no deflection, just a fact.

Oh don't start.

Deflections won't work.

You voted to take us out the the EU for spurious, made up reasons that you decided were true even though they were manifestly lies and you're trying to make me look silly.

Won't work.

volver

God, this makes me angry. I have no time for people saying they voted for what they thought was right. It was wrong and ill thought out and misguided. Should have paid more attention.

"I voted for my grandchildren's future".

Messed that up then.

I find it ironic that you are angry with those who voted to leave the EU, yet you are vociferously for Scotland leaving the Union?

We all know that the Brexit propoganda was based on lies. Not spin, outright lies.

If people voted on the basis of those lies, believing them to be truths, then how can they get what they want; it didn't exist and we are condemned to a life that will be far more difficult than it ever needed to be.

God, this makes me angry. I have no time for people saying they voted for what they thought was right. It was wrong and ill thought out and misguided. Should have paid more attention.

"I voted for my grandchildren's future".

Messed that up then.

MaizieD I was not in GN at the time of the referendum.

I have gained nothing by being honest about my vote on the N & P threads when I did join.

As many of you have repeatedly pointed out, you voted for your AC and GC, I was on the fence during the run up to the vote, it was all five of our AC and their wives/partners deciding to vote leave that finally made it clear where to put my X

Yes I did not want to see U.K. armed forces under the control of Brussels. Which is entirely different to our Armed Forces co-operating under the NATO flag, participating in joint operations along with what we do best, training other Countries forces.

None of the above is relevant to this thread.

My opinion is our negotiations were poor, our negotiators were poor. Better thought out and prepared negotiations and compromises are needed.

Whitewavemark2

volver

No, surely truth is absolute.

How it is interpreted is relative.

That’s an interesting statement.

I would argue that “truth” is a human construct.

So truth in the 13th century was that Jerusalem was the centre of the world

Truth in the 14th century was that the earth is flat

Truth in the 15th century was that the king was chosen by god and had the right therefore to absolute rule

I won’t go on but “truth” changes over time.

Oh dear, why get into this. We all know Brexit has not and could not be the success many believed it would be - if only because there were so many different beliefs as to what that would be.

If you believe that "truth is relative", you must also believe "there are no absolutes". Each of those beliefs is dependent on the other. Neither stands alone.

"There are no absolutes" means that phrase, being an absolute cannot be true. In the same way, the statement that "truth is relative" relies on the truth of that claim so it cannot be a truth.

It is a truth that I need oxygen, food and water to survive. I am not prepared to test the level of philosophical thinking available on this forum and prove it. But those using this as an argument may do so if you choose.

volver

And that's been worth plunging us into economic catastrophe, hastening the break up of the UK, and having a useless and law breaking cabinet, has it?

You know, volver, the utter frustration of hearing people's reasons for voting leave (& I recall, GG13 you citing 'EU army' as your reason..not federation..) and seeing the catastrophic results just doesn't get any easier...

The UK destroyed, for what?

Let's not get into the Brexit argument again.

I know it was the worst political decision of my lifetime and you know it wasn't. Neither of us will change our minds.

volver

And that's been worth plunging us into economic catastrophe, hastening the break up of the UK, and having a useless and law breaking cabinet, has it?

Honestly at the moment I am not impressed with how the negotiations went/are continuing.

Free movement of people and goods in my opinion could resolve a lot of the issues regarding border control and the problems on the island of Ireland.

And that's been worth plunging us into economic catastrophe, hastening the break up of the UK, and having a useless and law breaking cabinet, has it?

I voted to leave.

I may be a strange one because it was nothing to do with free movement of people or goods. I was not happy with being part of The United States of Europe. I felt that the Governing body of the EU was seeking out more powers and that did not sit well with me,

My family home was in mainland Europe for over 10 years I am not anti Europe, its differing cultures or its peoples.