Working class? Don't think that Oxbridge is for you.

Sorry, GG13, she's not there to be "realistic".

She's there to change things so that as many people as possible benefit from "social mobility". She's not there to say "its going to be hard for some of you, don't expect too much".

Callistemon21

^If everyone aimed for social mobility we would have no street cleaners, rubbish collections, care workers, supermarket shelf stackers etc^.
It could leave a vacuum as it has done with Brexit.

Social mobility could work both ways.
Should people who've been made redundant eg ex-MPS, senior managers in industry etc be encouraged to take the jobs formerly done by those whose social mobility has been upwards if they can find no other work?

I think it does work both ways, I know several people who have lost their high paid high flying jobs and now work in supermarkets and are careers.

Some women who have lost everything through divorce or otherwise have to take menial jobs to get by.

volver

When a person's role is to improve social mobility, the answer is not to come back and say that social mobility isn't for everyone and that the people at the bottom should be happy with what little improvement they can get.

KB is speaking as the Social Mobility Tsar, not an educationalist.

I think she was being realistic.

If everyone aimed for social mobility we would have no street cleaners, rubbish collections, care workers, supermarket shelf stackers etc.
It could leave a vacuum as it has done with Brexit.

Social mobility could work both ways.
Should people who've been made redundant eg ex-MPS, senior managers in industry etc be encouraged to take the jobs formerly done by those whose social mobility has been upwards if they can find no other work?

When a person's role is to improve social mobility, the answer is not to come back and say that social mobility isn't for everyone and that the people at the bottom should be happy with what little improvement they can get.

KB is speaking as the Social Mobility Tsar, not an educationalist.

volver

So stop aiming for "social mobility" then?

Know your place, peasants.

Jeez volver if that was in reply to me, you have totally misunderstood my post.

It’s all about an individual’s choice , and that should be educationalists priority not box ticking because someone in a back room office has decided that X amount of people from Y backgrounds should do this that and the other.

So stop aiming for "social mobility" then?

Know your place, peasants.

If everyone aimed for social mobility we would have no street cleaners, rubbish collections, care workers, supermarket shelf stackers etc.

In my opinion if you come from a family where several generations have not worked if you then go on to get a job you like and then go on to get promotions surely that could be a definition of social mobility

University is not for all, Oxbridge is not for all University applicants, let’s just work towards giving our young people a choice whether that be apprenticeships, further education or the chance of landing their dream job (whatever that may be).

I'm finding it really disappointing that posters with whom I often agree are looking for a sentence where KB says "Poor people shouldn't go to Oxbridge."

Its clear to me, and to many people here and many commentators outside of the GN bubble, that the intent of her speech was to reduce the expectations of "those at the bottom" (her words) so that they should be content if they can just get themselves a job. Don't aim high, just be happy with what you can get. Her premise about success being all about money is just showing her lack of understanding of how people really think, and she is using that made up idea to base her entire plan on.

She says people should be encouraged to get jobs that make them happy (That may be a paraphrase). Well that's lovely and we should all have jobs that make us happy. But its not social mobility and her responsibility is social mobility.

I've read it, volver. I appreciate that your earliest posts were based on headlines rather than the actual speech, but what exactly did she say that informed your conclusion that she's telling people to make do with less?

foxie48

MaizieD

I sometimes think that the left wing do-gooders who are always talking down the chances of working class people instead of talking them up, are actually doing it, not consciously, because if working class people were not struggling, they would have nothing to feel virtuous about.

I'm absolutely struggling to make sense of this, MOnica. We're talking about Birbalsingh, who is right wing, apparently suggesting that working class children shouldn't aspire to Oxbridge. No left-wing do gooders involved...

MaizieD the whole 9 pages on this thread have been based on something that Balbirsingh did not say. I've read the speech, listened to the Q and A session which followed her speech and she did not say that working class students should aim lower than Oxbridge. If she had I would violently disagree with her. In her speech she doesn't even mention Oxbridge.

Please read my post, 13:30. Please. ??

foxie48

MaizieD

I sometimes think that the left wing do-gooders who are always talking down the chances of working class people instead of talking them up, are actually doing it, not consciously, because if working class people were not struggling, they would have nothing to feel virtuous about.

I'm absolutely struggling to make sense of this, MOnica. We're talking about Birbalsingh, who is right wing, apparently suggesting that working class children shouldn't aspire to Oxbridge. No left-wing do gooders involved...

MaizieD the whole 9 pages on this thread have been based on something that Balbirsingh did not say. I've read the speech, listened to the Q and A session which followed her speech and she did not say that working class students should aim lower than Oxbridge. If she had I would violently disagree with her. In her speech she doesn't even mention Oxbridge.

I know, foxie48, I've read the speech too, now.

It seemed quite reasonable to me. Perhaps volver could point out the actual phrase/sentence/ paragraph which has informed her interpretation, because I'll be blowed if I can see what it is that I seem to be missing.

MaizieD

^I sometimes think that the left wing do-gooders who are always talking down the chances of working class people instead of talking them up, are actually doing it, not consciously, because if working class people were not struggling, they would have nothing to feel virtuous about.^

I'm absolutely struggling to make sense of this, MOnica. We're talking about Birbalsingh, who is right wing, apparently suggesting that working class children shouldn't aspire to Oxbridge. No left-wing do gooders involved...

MaizieD the whole 9 pages on this thread have been based on something that Balbirsingh did not say. I've read the speech, listened to the Q and A session which followed her speech and she did not say that working class students should aim lower than Oxbridge. If she had I would violently disagree with her. In her speech she doesn't even mention Oxbridge.

Not long ago whilst visiting Oxford as a tourist I sat on a park bench by one of the colleges and a two young ladies sat beside me having their lunch.
Being a naturally chatty (nosy) person we started chatting, both were students at Oxford,one from a state school one privately educated but both new friends ,both clever and both considered themselves to be lucky to have gained places at such prestige places.Both said their classes seemed to be 50/50 mix of state and public schooled and beyond initially getting to know each other conversations it wasn’t now even an issue. I wished them both good luck in their lives and left them to chat and I came away thinking what thoroughly nice well balanced youngsters they were.

Oxbridge is a reference to hte headline in the LBC article. In the very first post of this thread I said To be fair, we haven't heard the whole speech yet so it might not come out this way when she actually says it..

Since then we have had a barrage of posts about how anyone can get to Oxbridge if they really want to. Somewhere upthread I said that this has nothing to do with getting to Oxbridge.

Birbalsingh is meant to be in charge of promoting social mobility and she is telling people to be happier with less social mobility. That's it.

I've just read the transcript of Birbalsingh's speech and I can't find anything that justifies your interpretation, volver. I can't even find the words 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' in it.

That's me done, though...

What is a left wing do gooder?
I suspect I’d be dismissed as one by some posters. The ones who insist they’re talking up the opportunities for working class children by bringing back secondary moderns for example

I sometimes think that the left wing do-gooders who are always talking down the chances of working class people instead of talking them up, are actually doing it, not consciously, because if working class people were not struggling, they would have nothing to feel virtuous about.

I'm absolutely struggling to make sense of this, MOnica. We're talking about Birbalsingh, who is right wing, apparently suggesting that working class children shouldn't aspire to Oxbridge. No left-wing do gooders involved...

Obviously from the grammar in that post you can see that I wasn't a student of English. ?

I was a student in Scotland in the Seventies.

Of all the students I knew, only one stayed at home. Moving into accommodation that wasn't your parental home was a huge part of being a student in Scotland. The different economic landscape that has meant that people have to stay at home now, and that's a pity.

Actually, come to think of it, a good proportion of Minibaggs's school cohort have lived at home too while at uni.

Living at home while a student, that is.

BTW, the army paid my dad's uni fees. He had to do post-war National Service when he left school at 18. When his two years were up, it was assumed he was uni material as he had 3 A-levels.

He and Mum both lived at home with their parents until they married.

Living at home was still common in Scotland in the seventies.

What no one takes into account is that going away to university is a daunting experience for any school leaver

Is it? Can't say I found it so. I was more than ready to spread my wings and assumed most 18 year olds were too.

So... well... gosh!

But perhaps having parents who went to uni helped as it was spoken of as a great experience, and one which, on my father's part, made him "socially mobile". He didn't forget his Yorkshire mining roots but he and his parents were jolly glad he was able to break out of that background. Mum went to a girls' grammar school and, also with parental encouragement, was the first girl at that school to get a state scholarship to university (early fifties). Their view was that if you were academically bright enough to go to uni then of course you would if you got the chance.

Things have changed somewhat since the mid-seventies and I do wonder now if some young folk who go to uni would be happier and no less well off (financially and psychologically) not going but doing some vocational training while in a job. I'm glad to see there is some movement towards this type of education. I might even have used it myself had it been available.

It is all the middle class bien-pensants who say they want to help them that talk them down by constantly telling them how hard it is for them to make progress Like Birbalsingh.

What they should really be doing is encouraging them to aim for the sky. The more of them that do that the better the chances of them succeeding. Unlike Birbalsingh.