Working class? Don't think that Oxbridge is for you.

Social mobility does not rely on an Oxbridge/red brick degree.

Nope. Not getting it at all.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny it is all to do with jobs.

Academia versus wealth

I know academics who cannot be described as wealthy, I know millionaires who left school at 15.

Expectations today are totally different due to social media, some young want to be famous, some want to be rich, some want to learn and no doubt some want to be all three.

Time to move on from putting people in boxes whilst in education, further education can be entered at any age and with access courses no need for A levels.

It all boils down to academic snobbery.

We all know what you’re suggesting is never going to happen GrannyGravy13. Academic institutions will always be compared and valued based on their academic rigour. Oxbridge has been at the top of the UK pile for centuries. Every country has an equivalent system. You can call it academic snobbery if you wish but whatever you call it, it’s the way of the world.

volver

Nope. Not getting it at all.

volver what are you not getting

One of the reasons that less working class children realise their potential is that they are often raised, as I was, in a world devoid of ambition where they are told success is for someone else. I believe she is perpetuating this in a world where we really could be hoping for better.

JaneJudge

lots of well off people I know are annoyed that working class/state school pupils are getting places at redbrick/oxbridge universities when their privately educated relatives cannot get places and they seem to think people from state schools are getting some kind of advantage

I have come across this attitude. An acquaintance who is a solicitor was very vocal about her privately educated son being refused a place at Oxford because it had to be given ( and I quote) to an oik from a council estate.

Casdon I agree, but I also know that it is possible to achieve both academically and financially without a degree from Oxbridge/red brick Uni.

"the person who cleans the toilets in an Oxford Dons house could go on to have their own cleaning company."

Which is nice unless they had the capability and desire to be an Oxford Don but couldn't do that as the Social Mobility Czar thought it too big a step.

No GG13. I'm not explaining myself clearly. I've got it. I started the thread, remember.

The person responsible for improving social mobility says people shouldn't expect to have social mobility.

RichmondPark

"the person who cleans the toilets in an Oxford Dons house could go on to have their own cleaning company."

Which is nice unless they had the capability and desire to be an Oxford Don but couldn't do that as the Social Mobility Czar thought it too big a step.

There is access to any University at any age.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that once that person has their own company that they can then apply to Oxbridge.

GrannyGravy13

Casdon I agree, but I also know that it is possible to achieve both academically and financially without a degree from Oxbridge/red brick Uni.

This is about aspiration though GrannyGravy13. Ability should be the deciding factor for getting into Oxbridge not social background.

It's not about aspiration.

It's about being told not to expect too much, know your place.

volver

No GG13. I'm not explaining myself clearly. I've got it. I started the thread, remember.

*The person responsible for improving social mobility says people shouldn't expect to have social mobility.*

Social mobility is earned either through academia or financial success.

Nobody should expect it.

I give up.

You're being told that if your parents are unemployed, and you get a job, you should be happy with that and not expect anything else.

GrannyGravy13

volver

No GG13. I'm not explaining myself clearly. I've got it. I started the thread, remember.

*The person responsible for improving social mobility says people shouldn't expect to have social mobility.*

Social mobility is earned either through academia or financial success.

Nobody should expect it.

The whole point about social mobility is it has to be possible. It is only possible if it is expected. If you are told that you are a great success because you have a job cleaning toilets (and your parents were unemployed), when what you really wanted to do was astrophysics at Oxbridge, should your job be celebrated or the loss of your ability mourned?
Of course everyone won't do it, but the possibility has to be there.

volver

I give up.

You're being told that if your parents are unemployed, and you get a job, you should be happy with that and not expect anything else.

That is not what I am saying.

If a student has the ability (both educational and emotional) to go to University, then it is down to them to choose what Uni they feel will suit them.

If they want to get a job and get their degree through the OU, that should not be dismissed.

That is not what I am saying.

I know. But that is what Birbalsingh is saying, and is the theme of this thread.

volver

It's not about aspiration.

It's about being told not to expect too much, know your place.

That’s what I meant - knowing your place means knowing it’s not possible for you to achieve something, so you don’t aspire to get there.

I take your point Casdon.

For many, many people, it is genuinely impossible to achieve a uni education, however much they may aspire to it.

The point is that they are capable of some achievements and those things should be celebrated just as much as uni degrees for those who can do them.

DD has a friend from a working class background. All her family work as cleaners, she is the first one who managed to get an office job. She did not go to university but is now working as a senior buyer earning almost twice the UK average salary.
So you can achieve social mobility without going to university.

I've just been over on Ms Birbalsingh's Twitter feed. Somebody has posted a comment including the standard definition of social mobility that the government has used up until now. You won't be surprised to learn that it's easier to say social mobility is improving if you use her new definition, which is completely made up and has little or no support from anyone with any experience in this, as far as I can see. So as is the way of things in 2022, if you don't like the rules because they are too hard, just change them.

She is also engaged in a tweetfest saying how she has been misrepresented and that she knows best. And some strawman argument about lawyers. She's predictable, I'll give her that.

Did anyone watch Beth Rigby's interview with her.

news.sky.com/story/i-wish-he-could-be-but-he-isnt-britains-strictest-headteacher-says-boris-johnson-is-no-role-model-for-children-12630957

Tweet that makes sense.

“it may just be me but if the Social Mobility Tsar is saying working class kids shouldn’t bother trying to be socially mobile then maybe they shouldn’t be the Social Mobility Tsar”

SporeRB

DD has a friend from a working class background. All her family work as cleaners, she is the first one who managed to get an office job. She did not go to university but is now working as a senior buyer earning almost twice the UK average salary.
So you can achieve social mobility without going to university.

Indeed you can. I didn’t go to university but became a partner in a City law firm.