Refugees

volver

Chestnut

mumofmadboys

I agree with LauraNorder. By chance we have been born in the UK. We need to share the good gifts we have with the whole of humanity. We need people to fill our jobs in hospitality, the care industry and the food industry. Why can't refugees do these jobs to start with? Many are educated people and may move on to other jobs.

We are already 'sharing the good gifts we have' with the whole of humanity. There is a beautiful flat near me which houses temporary council tenants. Seven out of eight who have lived there are from various different countries and most don't work or speak English, even though they've been here for some time. Only one out of eight was an English tenant. Surely that satisfies your wishes?

None of them Scottish then? Or Welsh? Or from Northern Ireland?

Or is it only the English who are allowed to have beautiful flats?

None of them were Scottish or Welsh or Irish, one was English. What is your point?

Oh don't be silly Maudi. Stop ranting this ill-informed, inaccurate rubbish. 8% is developed. 92% is not.

Only 1% more would provide 3.5 million homes and related infrastructure but you need a long-term political vision and funding to build it. Over the last 12 years of Tory rule, we have had 16 changes in Secretaries of State for Housing (5) and Ministers of of State for Housing (11). No-one stays in a job long enough to create a visionary plan or make any substantive change.

The government's own food security report.

In 2020 71% of UK land area was used for agricultural production, the majority of this being grassland for grazing rather than crops.

So much land used to fatten animals for slaughter, land which would feed far more people if it was used to grow arable crops. We need to start thinking about what we eat, reducing our meat intake and growing more grain instead of relying on other countries and being at the mercy of their weather (Canada) and geopolitical conflict (Russian and Ukraine).

Stop thinking that the UK is full. It isn't. We just don't use land efficiently.

Capitalism depends on people working. Economic growth depends on people working. How are you going to do it without people to work?

Chestnut

mumofmadboys

I agree with LauraNorder. By chance we have been born in the UK. We need to share the good gifts we have with the whole of humanity. We need people to fill our jobs in hospitality, the care industry and the food industry. Why can't refugees do these jobs to start with? Many are educated people and may move on to other jobs.

We are already 'sharing the good gifts we have' with the whole of humanity. There is a beautiful flat near me which houses temporary council tenants. Seven out of eight who have lived there are from various different countries and most don't work or speak English, even though they've been here for some time. Only one out of eight was an English tenant. Surely that satisfies your wishes?

None of them Scottish then? Or Welsh? Or from Northern Ireland?

Or is it only the English who are allowed to have beautiful flats?

So?

Visgirl suggested that people are coming here just for the medical treatment. Other people maintain that the dinghies are full of fit young men looking for economic benefits. Now apparently they are pregnant women who don't want to stay in France.

You can't have it all ways. It's all starting to sound a bit desperate.

Of course it's realistic. People are risking their lives to come here. Why? Maybe they want to work, but if they are seriously ill or pregnant they know they will get free treatment on the NHS.

Visgir1

Chestnut

volver You know, I'm not sure that people with serious heart conditions are just lining up to risk their lives by getting into dinghies and sailing across the Channel so that they can have their serious heart conditions looked at.
How do we know what medical conditions these people have? Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.

That's the point we don't know?

And at that time I'm telling you about, the guy I saw was not an isolated case.

One of the things I'm interested in is risk management; what is the likelihood of things happening?

So lets think about this. What is the likelihood of a 40 year old person in (say) Iraq, finding out they have a serious heart condition, then deciding to cross the middle east and Europe by foot or in the back of a lorry? Then they get to the Channel Coast, and spend weeks or months in the camps near Calais, and then decide to risk their lives in a flimsy dinghy. Then they get to these shores, and say to themselves, "thank goodness, now I can steal medical treatment from the British"

Its just not realistic is it? And the Consultant doesn't know anything about these people that he treats other than that they are ill. Or if he does, then he was sharing privileged information about patients. Surely that's not allowed? People are getting angry because they think somebody is getting something for nothing.

mumofmadboys

I agree with LauraNorder. By chance we have been born in the UK. We need to share the good gifts we have with the whole of humanity. We need people to fill our jobs in hospitality, the care industry and the food industry. Why can't refugees do these jobs to start with? Many are educated people and may move on to other jobs.

We are already 'sharing the good gifts we have' with the whole of humanity. There is a beautiful flat near me which houses temporary council tenants. Seven out of eight who have lived there are from various different countries and most don't work or speak English, even though they've been here for some time. Only one out of eight was an English tenant. Surely that satisfies your wishes?

10:58CaravanSerai

There are currently 28 millions homes i.e. 3.5 million homes for every 1% of developed land. So we could build another 3.5 million homes together with all the necessary infrastructure and still only use another 1%.

Yes lets build millions of homes until England's green and pleasant land is no more and there's not a blade of grass left, why not we can let all and sundry in dinghy boats by the thousands or why not open borders then they can all come that's Labour /Lib Dems stance.

MaizieD

^ Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.^

How do you know that?

It was on the news!

Sone excellent posts on here from Lauranorder MOMB whitewave and Maizie

I hope those saying “what is the answer” are actually reading them….

I agree with LauraNorder.

So did I (and it's not often that I do). That was a lovely post.

I agree with LauraNorder. By chance we have been born in the UK. We need to share the good gifts we have with the whole of humanity. We need people to fill our jobs in hospitality, the care industry and the food industry. Why can't refugees do these jobs to start with? Many are educated people and may move on to other jobs.

Chestnut

volver You know, I'm not sure that people with serious heart conditions are just lining up to risk their lives by getting into dinghies and sailing across the Channel so that they can have their serious heart conditions looked at.
How do we know what medical conditions these people have? Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.

That's the point we don't know?

And at that time I'm telling you about, the guy I saw was not an isolated case.

^ Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.^

How do you know that?

volver You know, I'm not sure that people with serious heart conditions are just lining up to risk their lives by getting into dinghies and sailing across the Channel so that they can have their serious heart conditions looked at.
How do we know what medical conditions these people have? Pregnant women are risking their lives to get here so their babies are born in the NHS instead of in France, a safe country.

Why hasn’t the government ever taken up France’s offer of a processing office in Calais? That way we can welcome refugees ready and willing to work and contribute to U.K. society.

We could even get them jobs before they enter the U.K. Just think of the potential clinicians, agriculture workers, etc.

^ Let’s hear your solutions for the problem^

The solution to the problem has been posted over and over again, in social media, in the press and anywhere that people discuss it.

The problem is that these refugees have nowhere in their own countries to apply to the UK for asylum and the UK insists that they can only apply for asylum once they are in the UK. BUT, they have no safe routes to get to the UK to do so (which is just what the government hopes will stop them coming). Give them safe routes to enter the UK and the people trafficking is immediately stopped. End of problem.

Of course, you seem to think that there are too many people in the UK already (I'm being generous here). Which is a completely different matter.

If you read CaravanSerai's post at 10.58 you will see that we do have the capacity to build enough to house our population.

As to the crumbling infrastructure, that is a purely UK problem stemming from a government which is not prepared to spend any money on it.

There, sorted for you

kgnw28225 It has been said numerous times- the only realistic way of tackling this is to cooperate with our European neighbours and tackle the criminal gangs - this can only be done through international cooperation. also the Home Office needs to speed up the asylum process - it can take years and in that time asylum seekers are not allowed to contribute to the economy. We should also introduce ID cards as they do in Italy and France, would tackle the problem of truly illegal immigrants working under the radar. There should be legal routes open to potential migrants to apply so they can be screened before they get here. Of course those who voted Brexit to “control our borders” must be seriously disappointed in the fact that there are more migrants now than before, the Home Office is a joke, and our government have shown our country to be untrustworthy and inhumane so cooperation with others becomes less likely.

Life in Britain in 2022.

Nobody has any other solution to offer.

Here's a solution!

No, not that one.

Visgir1

I remember about 20 yrs ago, in the Hospital I work in, having to do some Cardiac Ultra sound on a Male "Refugee" aged about 40 yrs who had been detained at a Local Detention Centre. He arrived with wardens as security.
This guy had no English, but he had a serious heart condition.
On speaking to the Consultant Cardiologist about this chap, he told me that at that time, a lot of these people are only here for our NHS, we fix them for free then they got deported home. They knew this was the deal and was one of the reasons they came here.
He told me he was there nearly every week assessing the detainees , they all know we will sort their problem out.

I have no idea how he got into the UK but it wasn't legal.

Well sorry, but I'm not sure your Consultant Cardiologist is an expert in immigration law or knew any better than the rest of us what brought people here.

You know, I'm not sure that people with serious heart conditions are just lining up to risk their lives by getting into dinghies and sailing across the Channel so that they can have their serious heart conditions looked at.

kgnw28225

Everyone has views on migrants. What I would suggest is everyone who deplores the schemes thought up by others, everyone being Prince Charles ,activists, Do Goode’s. Let’s hear your solutions for the problem? Apart from building houses on every scrap of green land? With no Doctors, Shops, Schools, What are we to do about homeless British people begging in the streets, the six million people waiting for operations on the NHS. Unable to see a doctor? Or...... is there another reason all of this is happening, other than too many people living in the UK. I invite your comments

You are muddling immigrants with asylum seekers.

The two are different in law.

If every application for refugee status had been granted last year, it would have amounted to 1 person for every 6th town. Many of those applicants have families already and working in the U.K. so housing will not be such an issue.

The U.K. is short of employees in various areas like hospitality, health, agriculture since they all went back to Europe before Brexit.

But the point is not every applicant will be successful whichever government is in power, and applications are dealt with by the courts.

These arguments were all flogged during the Brexit debate. Same argument different people that is all.

Everyone has views on migrants. What I would suggest is everyone who deplores the schemes thought up by others, everyone being Prince Charles ,activists, Do Goode’s. Let’s hear your solutions for the problem? Apart from building houses on every scrap of green land? With no Doctors, Shops, Schools, What are we to do about homeless British people begging in the streets, the six million people waiting for operations on the NHS. Unable to see a doctor? Or...... is there another reason all of this is happening, other than too many people living in the UK. I invite your comments

I remember about 20 yrs ago, in the Hospital I work in, having to do some Cardiac Ultra sound on a Male "Refugee" aged about 40 yrs who had been detained at a Local Detention Centre. He arrived with wardens as security.
This guy had no English, but he had a serious heart condition.
On speaking to the Consultant Cardiologist about this chap, he told me that at that time, a lot of these people are only here for our NHS, we fix them for free then they got deported home. They knew this was the deal and was one of the reasons they came here.
He told me he was there nearly every week assessing the detainees , they all know we will sort their problem out.

I have no idea how he got into the UK but it wasn't legal.

One of the things I find puzzling about some of these attitudes to refugees is how many of the people who complain and who insist they aren't racist were willing to welcome Ukranians. Do they not realise that most of the refugees are fleeing from countries just like Ukraine, war torn, totalist regimes where their life is threatened? Why one lot but not the others?