Can we discuss the migrant crisis in a sensible and humane way?

Katie59

Those fleeing a war zone Ukraine or Iraq are quite open where they come from and. Should be accepted without unreasonable delay, the problem migrants are those that destroy documents and will not identify their origin.

They are economic migrants at best, taking advantage of our compassion.

As I wrote before, Eritreans make up a big percentage of asylum seekers. Eritrea doesn't issue passports to most people. They are not "economic migrants". It has also been reported that traffickers confiscate paperwork as a security for themselves. Moreover, traffickers often provide asylum seekers with forged documents so that they can board a plane because countries of origin won't issue travel documents to people they don't want to leave the country (eg because they have criticised the regime). They are then told to destroy the documents. In reality, it's to protect the traffickers, but the asylum seekers are told they'll be prosecute for travelling on forged documents or their families will be persecuted.

Those fleeing a war zone Ukraine or Iraq are quite open where they come from and. Should be accepted without unreasonable delay, the problem migrants are those that destroy documents and will not identify their origin.

They are economic migrants at best, taking advantage of our compassion.

All the above ideas are very worthy and kind hearted but the practicalities of such policies have to be paid for. Each of the left wing parties Labour, Lib Dem, Green and so on have a way to pay and that is the asset or mansion tax.

The idea is that any one who owns assets, including a house (which cannot be hidden), will pay between one and five per cent ( or more) of its value every year in tax. The asset tax would probably start at one per cent to get everyone on board and then escalate quickly once it was up and running.

It’s very easy to work out what you would pay. If you have a house worth £200,000 you’d pay extra tax at the following rates:-
One per cent - £2000 per annum
Two per cent - £4000
Three per cent - £6000
Four per cent - £8000
Five per cent - £10,000

Of course, that would be a lot of money to some people, but the idea is to defer taking some or all of it until the householder dies or goes into care and then it is taken from the equity in the house. So after ten years, if the householder goes into care, the government gets £100,000 of what the house is worth at a five per cent rate and after twenty years they own the house.

Think what the government could do with the money!

N.b. The Conservatives would probably not reverse such a policy were it once up and running. Indeed, they couldn’t, as they’d have to fill the gap in spending from somewhere else.

HousePlantQueen

Maudi

I see you're not replying to mayisay someone who has first hand experience of the problems of the dinghy landings just sprouting the same old same old.

No I am not replying to MayISay comments because I have no experience of what she is describing. I keep trying to direct this discussion to solutions, not blame, besides which I am sure that the poster is perfectly able to ask this herself, please stop trying to make this yet another right/wrong situation. The facts are people come here on dinghies, the question was how can we attempt to stop this dangerous anxiety criminal practice. What are your suggestions?

Maudi, what are your suggestions ? OP was trying to have a reasoned discussion. We have heard several suggestions but it would be good to hear yours

Absolutely correct! Well said.

Mollygo

growstuff

Teach them English! I have just finished with a pupil who came from mainland China when she was 12 with very little English. She's predicted to achieve 11 x GCSEs at Grade 9 (the top grade), including English Language and Literature and has been awarded a scholarship at Westminster School.

We’ve had children arrive from Russia who performed in a similar manner, and when we lived in Liverpool, a lot of non English speaking children with parents who’d come to University, but they weren’t traumatised, and their parents could find homes or jobs.
That’s not quite the same situation as it is now in many places.

No, it's not, but it shows that it is possible to learn good English in quite a short period of time. I've know other schoolchildren who have learnt to a high standard in a couple of years too. I wish people would remember where the majority of asylum seekers are from and not confuse them with other immigrants.

HousePlantQueen, thank you for your attempts to open a rational debate. Sadly, it seems, it's difficult to keep conversations courteous. I hope that I can see this matter with some clarity and compassion, as a descendant of an economic migrant.
I am comfortable that my stance makes me a liberal. Why must this be prefaced with the sneering "bleeding heart"?
P.S. I live on the Kent coast- no-one on this thread can claim to be closer to the problem than me.

I used the example of people wanting to come to the UK rather than Sweden simply because I assumed that they possessed at least a little English gleaned from films/TV. Only a guess on my part and I am sure Sweden is doing a great job!

growstuff

Teach them English! I have just finished with a pupil who came from mainland China when she was 12 with very little English. She's predicted to achieve 11 x GCSEs at Grade 9 (the top grade), including English Language and Literature and has been awarded a scholarship at Westminster School.

We’ve had children arrive from Russia who performed in a similar manner, and when we lived in Liverpool, a lot of non English speaking children with parents who’d come to University, but they weren’t traumatised, and their parents could find homes or jobs.
That’s not quite the same situation as it is now in many places.

oh dear, this thread is turning nasty and political. Something the OP was trying to get away from.

Better luck next time.

Maudi

I see you're not replying to mayisay someone who has first hand experience of the problems of the dinghy landings just sprouting the same old same old.

No I am not replying to MayISay comments because I have no experience of what she is describing. I keep trying to direct this discussion to solutions, not blame, besides which I am sure that the poster is perfectly able to ask this herself, please stop trying to make this yet another right/wrong situation. The facts are people come here on dinghies, the question was how can we attempt to stop this dangerous anxiety criminal practice. What are your suggestions?

Katie59

Lucca

misguided bleeding heart liberals
Cannot believe I’m reading these words in 2022.

You are reading it, some of us believe in upholding the law of the land

As do I …what has that got to with your phrase ?

HousePlantQueen

Will some of you stop using the word naive when what you mean is humanitarian/caring/not a racist. Not one person on here has suggested throwing the borders open and letting everyone in, and neither have the Labour or LibDem parties. This thread is about acknowledging the problem and suggesting sensible and efficient ways of dealing with it. Now if some of you would deal in facts, and not racist hearsay, could we continue?

I think posters know what they mean and don't need to be told what they mean. If they say naive then that is what they mean, not your spin on it. There are a lot of people who want to help the world and his wife but maybe don't understand the scale of the problem. I suggest they look at a map of the world, compare our size to the size of all the many countries they want to help.

growstuff

Chestnut

I have friends in Sevenoaks and that is nowhere near the coast, and not really near London either, where most people seem to head.

So if they're only passing through Sevenoaks, they won't be stopping to go to the doctor or school.

Exactly. Not all parts of Kent will be affected by an influx of migrants. I don't know where volver's relatives live in Kent, but maybe they are not affected either.

I see you're not replying to mayisay someone who has first hand experience of the problems of the dinghy landings just sprouting the same old same old.

Will some of you stop using the word naive when what you mean is humanitarian/caring/not a racist. Not one person on here has suggested throwing the borders open and letting everyone in, and neither have the Labour or LibDem parties. This thread is about acknowledging the problem and suggesting sensible and efficient ways of dealing with it. Now if some of you would deal in facts, and not racist hearsay, could we continue?

Chestnut

I have friends in Sevenoaks and that is nowhere near the coast, and not really near London either, where most people seem to head.

So if they're only passing through Sevenoaks, they won't be stopping to go to the doctor or school.

Teach them English! I have just finished with a pupil who came from mainland China when she was 12 with very little English. She's predicted to achieve 11 x GCSEs at Grade 9 (the top grade), including English Language and Literature and has been awarded a scholarship at Westminster School.

How do you think Germany manages to absorb far more than even apply for asylum in the UK? (and - yes - I know there are problems, but at least they're trying).

So Bute offered refuge to 24 families from Syria and it's all worked out fine. They were screened and placed there, not just random single young men turning up on boats.
And that’s exactly it.
It affects some people directly, more than others who hear about it via their relatives and who are still unable to suggest a way to stop increasing number arriving by the smugglers.
People expressing concern about how we can absorb, house, employ (and educate if necessary) numbers like 444 per day are ridiculed.
When you’re faced with an influx of children with no English who are suddenly able to access support (which they need), when parents and teachers have been unable to access help for their disadvantaged children who are already here, it’s hard not to ask how we can accommodate even more.
This thread started with some suggestions of what needed to be done, e.g. processing more efficiently and quickly. It’s quite evident that not only the government have no idea how to solve the smuggling problem.

not giving opinions from the distant hills of Scotland.

Wow. Talons out.

"I'm sorry, unless you actually live in a shack on the beach, you have no idea what this problem is like. And anything you say is just to be ignored."

mayisay

I don't usually respond to threads re illegal migrants, but I have to say I am absolutely astonished at the some of the totally out of touch and naive comments being made.
Here in Kent, we have been dealing with this massive problem for at least ten years, at great expense to KCC. It is only quite recently that the rest of the UK seem to have become aware of the situation!
Not all of the mainly young men, are picked up by Border Force. Many are arriving on beaches, and are not apprehended, so no accurate figure is known.
As for them speaking English, and that's the reason they arrive here, I'd like to know why NHS correspondence recently received by me, was also translated into at least 20 different African and Middle East languages!

This is straight from the horse's mouth, someone who lives in Kent and sees this first hand, not giving opinions from the distant hills of Scotland.

I have friends in Sevenoaks and that is nowhere near the coast, and not really near London either, where most people seem to head.

17:07mayisay

Great post good to hear from someone on the front line so to speak who had real experience of the problem instead of all the naive bleeding hearts on here.