Can we discuss the migrant crisis in a sensible and humane way?

HousePlantQueen

Oh FFS, I had hoped we could use this thread for sensible, calm discussion of how to deal with the acknowledged issue of many boatloads of asylum seekers arriving every day. Initially, most people understood this brief, and we had some very good suggestions for how to deal with this. I turned my back for a day and all the usual nonsense is getting churned out, I can't even be bothered to repeat the ill informed and hostile drivel some people have posted, but sadly, it is there for all to read. As for the post about a village of 700 about to get 1600 young male refugees, I would call b*** on it, but the people who believe this utter vile nonsense would report me. Funny how someone can get all a flutter about a swear word, but not give a flying one for hundreds of distressed people. What a bloody country.

Well, they are angry and they don't want it.

news.sky.com/story/migrant-crisis-linton-on-ouse-residents-fury-at-home-office-asylum-centre-branding-it-the-wrong-plan-wrong-place-12617995

HousePlantQueen

Oh FFS, I had hoped we could use this thread for sensible, calm discussion of how to deal with the acknowledged issue of many boatloads of asylum seekers arriving every day. Initially, most people understood this brief, and we had some very good suggestions for how to deal with this. I turned my back for a day and all the usual nonsense is getting churned out, I can't even be bothered to repeat the ill informed and hostile drivel some people have posted, but sadly, it is there for all to read. As for the post about a village of 700 about to get 1600 young male refugees, I would call b*** on it, but the people who believe this utter vile nonsense would report me. Funny how someone can get all a flutter about a swear word, but not give a flying one for hundreds of distressed people. What a bloody country.

GrannyGravy13

volver you have been on the N & P threads long enough to have read the extremely good and informative posts by MaizieD regarding taxation and government spending.

Seriously though, why do we bother paying taxes?

Paying taxes is seen as one of the things that mark us out a good citizens of the UK. If the asylum seekers want to pay taxes and be good citizens, why shouldn't they?

15:59growstuff

It wasn't irrelevant the NHS and doctors surgeries are under strain with all the extra economic migrants coming over in dinghies its pretty obvious.

volver you have been on the N & P threads long enough to have read the extremely good and informative posts by MaizieD regarding taxation and government spending.

Unless you're a diehard NIMBY.

Chestnut

growstuff

Because that is where it will end if people keep arriving at the rate of sometimes 500 per day.

It would take 36 years for the UK population to double at that rate - and even then the country wouldn't be "full".

What do you call 'full'? When you look at the problems we have now, especially healthcare, housing and gridlocked roads, what do you think it would be like with double the population? Do you want every inch of green space built upon? Do you want homeless people on every street corner? And how would we even move around? Could the London Underground cope with double the number of people?

There's plenty of space!

growstuff

DiamondLily

I think those, with skills we need, can come over on an approved visa?

Those landing in rubber boats seem to have no papers to prove nationality, qualifications or anything else - so we cannot employ any skills they may have.

I don't think it's true that none of them have any papers.

I think it is.

I think their land areas, for building housing, infrastructure, are larger though.

Maudi

15:42growstuff

That's good but I'm sure they came over on a visa using the correct route not on dinghies that's what we are talking about on this thread.

So why did you throw it into the discussion, if you knew it was totally irrelevant?

Oh FFS, I had hoped we could use this thread for sensible, calm discussion of how to deal with the acknowledged issue of many boatloads of asylum seekers arriving every day. Initially, most people understood this brief, and we had some very good suggestions for how to deal with this. I turned my back for a day and all the usual nonsense is getting churned out, I can't even be bothered to repeat the ill informed and hostile drivel some people have posted, but sadly, it is there for all to read. As for the post about a village of 700 about to get 1600 young male refugees, I would call b*** on it, but the people who believe this utter vile nonsense would report me. Funny how someone can get all a flutter about a swear word, but not give a flying one for hundreds of distressed people. What a bloody country.

DiamondLily

I think those, with skills we need, can come over on an approved visa?

Those landing in rubber boats seem to have no papers to prove nationality, qualifications or anything else - so we cannot employ any skills they may have.

I don't think it's true that none of them have any papers.

Germany, France and Spain received far more asylum applications than the UK in 2021, so it's not true that the UK is the Number 1 preferred destination.

Sweden received 11,425 applications (which was the lowest for decades), but has a population of 10.35 million, which is a sixth of the UK.

The UK received 48,540 asylum application in 2021. If it had received asylum applications at the same rate per head as Sweden, it should have received over 66,000.

I think those, with skills we need, can come over on an approved visa?

Those landing in rubber boats seem to have no papers to prove nationality, qualifications or anything else - so we cannot employ any skills they may have.

15:42growstuff

That's good but I'm sure they came over on a visa using the correct route not on dinghies that's what we are talking about on this thread.

growstuff

*Because that is where it will end if people keep arriving at the rate of sometimes 500 per day.*

It would take 36 years for the UK population to double at that rate - and even then the country wouldn't be "full".

What do you call 'full'? When you look at the problems we have now, especially healthcare, housing and gridlocked roads, what do you think it would be like with double the population? Do you want every inch of green space built upon? Do you want homeless people on every street corner? And how would we even move around? Could the London Underground cope with double the number of people?

Candelle

Thanks, Volver, for the informative link regarding immigration.

I can see both sides of the immigration question.

Surely we do not have the infrastructure to accept everyone person from, for example, Africa who wishes to come and live here. No matter how we would wish to help, we do not have the resources.

However, if I were a young impoverished young man from, say again, Africa and had seen the wonderful standard of living (via the internet) available in Europe, yes, I would probably chance my arm to live here.

I wonder if the fact that English is so readily available in terms of film and TV, that people have a little English and so wish to come here instead of perhaps, for example, Sweden.

I don't have any answers.

However, could someone please explain how the 'captains' of the inflatable craft are not singled out when picked up at sea by our boats? Surely someone has to have the maritime skills necessary to cross such a busy body of water such as the channel. Surely the traffickers don't just hand control of an inflatable to a rookie?

Its a complete fallacy that we do not have the infrastructure Candelle. The people who are coming across in the dinghies are all kinds of people, including professionals or people who have skills that we could use in this country. We don't have to "keep" them all, but we should be glad that tenacious people want to come here. They are only a drain on our resources because the government, specifically the Home Office, have not got an effective system for dealing with them. They are not allowed to work, their claims take forever to process, and they are basically abandoned by this country.

In 2017, the last date I can find data for, Sweden granted more asylum claims than the UK. We're really not the target for the whole world, we're really not.

None of the people on the boats, generally, have any maritime experience. They are put in the boats by people traffickers, they set off and hope for the best.

Candelle The UK doesn't accept that many people from the whole continent of Africa. The majority of immigrants come from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The majority of refugees granted asylum are a small proportion of the total and come mainly from Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.

Maudi

The NHS and GP surgeries have problems now, long waiting lists etc but never mind let all and sundry come the British taxpayer will foot the bill.

Did you know that more foreign-trained doctors registered last year then British-trained doctors?

I think, perhaps, the debate view depends on where you live.

Certain areas, without doubt, are feeling the strain more than others.

Kent, London and the South are feeling the strain.

The village, with the ex air base, in Yorkshire, are going nuts at refugees being "housed" there.

I just wonder at the end result - we still have those we willingly bought over from Afghanistan, living in one hotel room, often with children.

Not what they were promised - but we have no housing to move them onto.

How fair is it to leave people, without an end date, in hotels?

Maudi

15:26Chestnut

I agree Chestnut, I expect they have nothing better to do, sad really isn't.

The same goes for you presumably.

There's another "sad". Another one for my spreadsheet.

Thanks, Volver, for the informative link regarding immigration.

I can see both sides of the immigration question.

Surely we do not have the infrastructure to accept everyone person from, for example, Africa who wishes to come and live here. No matter how we would wish to help, we do not have the resources.

However, if I were a young impoverished young man from, say again, Africa and had seen the wonderful standard of living (via the internet) available in Europe, yes, I would probably chance my arm to live here.

I wonder if the fact that English is so readily available in terms of film and TV, that people have a little English and so wish to come here instead of perhaps, for example, Sweden.

I don't have any answers.

However, could someone please explain how the 'captains' of the inflatable craft are not singled out when picked up at sea by our boats? Surely someone has to have the maritime skills necessary to cross such a busy body of water such as the channel. Surely the traffickers don't just hand control of an inflatable to a rookie?

Lyndie

1 million visas were granted last year to live here.

"Of the visas granted in the latest 12 months, 33% were for study, 31% were to visit, 18% were to work, 3% were for family, and 14% for other reasons."

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-december-2021/summary-of-latest-statistics#:~:text=There%20were%201%2C311%2C731%20visas%20granted,but%2036%25%20higher%20than%202020.

So a third are only here for the duration of their study and a third are here on short term visas to visit.

Of those who have work visas:

"Skilled work, which accounts for 63% of work-related visas granted, saw the largest growth in visa numbers from 2019 and increased by 37,551 or 33%. High value, Skilled worker, Temporary worker and Other work visas and exemptions routes all rose compared to the previous year."

In other words, doctors and nurses and other highly skilled people the UK won't train itself.

15:26Chestnut

I agree Chestnut, I expect they have nothing better to do, sad really isn't.