Can we discuss the migrant crisis in a sensible and humane way?

I used the example of people wanting to come to the UK rather than Sweden simply because I assumed that they possessed at least a little English gleaned from films/TV. Only a guess on my part and I am sure Sweden is doing a great job!

HousePlantQueen, thank you for your attempts to open a rational debate. Sadly, it seems, it's difficult to keep conversations courteous. I hope that I can see this matter with some clarity and compassion, as a descendant of an economic migrant.
I am comfortable that my stance makes me a liberal. Why must this be prefaced with the sneering "bleeding heart"?
P.S. I live on the Kent coast- no-one on this thread can claim to be closer to the problem than me.

Mollygo

growstuff

Teach them English! I have just finished with a pupil who came from mainland China when she was 12 with very little English. She's predicted to achieve 11 x GCSEs at Grade 9 (the top grade), including English Language and Literature and has been awarded a scholarship at Westminster School.

We’ve had children arrive from Russia who performed in a similar manner, and when we lived in Liverpool, a lot of non English speaking children with parents who’d come to University, but they weren’t traumatised, and their parents could find homes or jobs.
That’s not quite the same situation as it is now in many places.

No, it's not, but it shows that it is possible to learn good English in quite a short period of time. I've know other schoolchildren who have learnt to a high standard in a couple of years too. I wish people would remember where the majority of asylum seekers are from and not confuse them with other immigrants.

Absolutely correct! Well said.

HousePlantQueen

Maudi

I see you're not replying to mayisay someone who has first hand experience of the problems of the dinghy landings just sprouting the same old same old.

No I am not replying to MayISay comments because I have no experience of what she is describing. I keep trying to direct this discussion to solutions, not blame, besides which I am sure that the poster is perfectly able to ask this herself, please stop trying to make this yet another right/wrong situation. The facts are people come here on dinghies, the question was how can we attempt to stop this dangerous anxiety criminal practice. What are your suggestions?

Maudi, what are your suggestions ? OP was trying to have a reasoned discussion. We have heard several suggestions but it would be good to hear yours

All the above ideas are very worthy and kind hearted but the practicalities of such policies have to be paid for. Each of the left wing parties Labour, Lib Dem, Green and so on have a way to pay and that is the asset or mansion tax.

The idea is that any one who owns assets, including a house (which cannot be hidden), will pay between one and five per cent ( or more) of its value every year in tax. The asset tax would probably start at one per cent to get everyone on board and then escalate quickly once it was up and running.

It’s very easy to work out what you would pay. If you have a house worth £200,000 you’d pay extra tax at the following rates:-
One per cent - £2000 per annum
Two per cent - £4000
Three per cent - £6000
Four per cent - £8000
Five per cent - £10,000

Of course, that would be a lot of money to some people, but the idea is to defer taking some or all of it until the householder dies or goes into care and then it is taken from the equity in the house. So after ten years, if the householder goes into care, the government gets £100,000 of what the house is worth at a five per cent rate and after twenty years they own the house.

Think what the government could do with the money!

N.b. The Conservatives would probably not reverse such a policy were it once up and running. Indeed, they couldn’t, as they’d have to fill the gap in spending from somewhere else.

Those fleeing a war zone Ukraine or Iraq are quite open where they come from and. Should be accepted without unreasonable delay, the problem migrants are those that destroy documents and will not identify their origin.

They are economic migrants at best, taking advantage of our compassion.

Katie59

Those fleeing a war zone Ukraine or Iraq are quite open where they come from and. Should be accepted without unreasonable delay, the problem migrants are those that destroy documents and will not identify their origin.

They are economic migrants at best, taking advantage of our compassion.

As I wrote before, Eritreans make up a big percentage of asylum seekers. Eritrea doesn't issue passports to most people. They are not "economic migrants". It has also been reported that traffickers confiscate paperwork as a security for themselves. Moreover, traffickers often provide asylum seekers with forged documents so that they can board a plane because countries of origin won't issue travel documents to people they don't want to leave the country (eg because they have criticised the regime). They are then told to destroy the documents. In reality, it's to protect the traffickers, but the asylum seekers are told they'll be prosecute for travelling on forged documents or their families will be persecuted.

It’s being reported this morning that there is a plan to electronically tag asylum seekers.

Not sure how I feel about this.

I know how I feel about this.

Maybe in a couple of months we'll be tattooing them and making them wear yellow stars on thier clothes.

According to the BBC, the asylum seekers who will be tagged in this pilot scheme are those deemed not likely to conform to the terms and conditions set whilst waiting for their asylum claims to be approved.

First will be those who avoided the flight to Rwanda.

For those who would actually like to have some facts and figures about this, here is an interesting article from the BBC this morning.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53699511

Germany, 1.5 times our size and 1.5 times our population, had 3 times as many applications for asylum as us last year. The whole world does not want to come here because of how great we are compared to everyone else.

People are now crossing on dinghies because we tightened the security measures for trucks. That was the right thing to do, of course. But beware of unintended consequences.

Although we don’t have ID cards in the UK, the employment rules we do have make it very difficult for people to employ workers who are not entitled to work.

We’ve heard quite a lot on here about how they are jumping the queue and should wait to get Visas through the so-called “legal” routes. There are nine routes to getting that asylum seekers can take. Five of them are limited to people from Afghanistan, Ukraine and Hong Kong. One route is for partners and children of people already here. The three other routes allowed the settlement of 1,271 people last year. If you are escaping war or oppression in Eritrea or Viet Nam, and want to join your brother here, you will die of old age before you get to the head of the queue for visas.

If posters don’t want to support asylum seekers and don’t want them here just say so. Don’t pretend that we are global Britain doing our bit and everybody else is just out to get us.

GrannyGravy13

According to the BBC, the asylum seekers who will be tagged in this pilot scheme are those deemed not likely to conform to the terms and conditions set whilst waiting for their asylum claims to be approved.

First will be those who avoided the flight to Rwanda.

So they intend to treat as criminals those who successfully and legally appealed against being illegally deported to another country.

Thanks for those facts volver. Very interesting. I suppose I should mention that Germany is a much larger country than us and that they have a notable shortage of labour. Angela Merkel did very well in my opinion to open their borders to migrants but that seems to have backfired on her according to friends in Germany. She's gone now of course. I'm not sure how well things are going there right now.
Och, as has been said so many times, of course we should take poor unfortunate asylum seekers fleeing in desperate need but it's the economic migrants that are muddying the waters. If the visa system worked more efficiently that would help.
Meanwhile, I'm still pondering the fate of the disappearing Devon boatload.

Germany - 1.5 times larger.

3 times as many applications.

We have a labour shortage.

Excuses, excuses.

I'm pretty sure that the French vetoed that idea

sorry, that was in answer to Houseplants suggestion that applications should be done in Calais, but the French wouldn't allow it?

Good information Volver and I believe that Sweden is another country favoured by refugees. I am also believe that there is a huge element of racism with the refugee problem, we welcomed refugees who were Ukrainian but with those from Syria, Iran etc it was a different matter.

Catlover123

I'm pretty sure that the French vetoed that idea

They did not. In fact they suggested it.

Instead, France has proposed setting up joint processing centres on French soil, where applications for asylum in Britain could be examined by British immigration officers.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/26/channel-crossings-france-uk-johnson-macron-letter

volver

Catlover123

I'm pretty sure that the French vetoed that idea

They did not. In fact they suggested it.

Instead, France has proposed setting up joint processing centres on French soil, where applications for asylum in Britain could be examined by British immigration officers.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/26/channel-crossings-france-uk-johnson-macron-letter

thanks Volver for the info

??

That seems a very sensible thing to do. Must be just too sensible!

Lillyflower, I find your description of the mansion tax horrifying!

If this came to pass (and was initiated even in part due to immigrantion) I would think it would harden attitudes to the problem.

Is there any evidence at all that any party are thinking of introducing a mansion tax to pay for asylum seekers? Any evidence at all?

Because if not, why bring it up?

I've heard that bandied about but not seriously.