What are your views on unions & strikes?

Lynch's retort to Madeley's questioning about whether he cared if people died.

People will die because of Tory policies, not because of rail strikes.

I agree that it is inconvenient for many, Marmadoit. Strikes rarely affect everyone in the same way, and for those bearing the brunt 'inconvenient' understates the case. But what would you have the unions do? Many who are striking (not the train drivers) are on very low pay which is being eroded by increases in NI and tax, and by inflation. Track maintenance workers are being threatened with job cuts, ticket offices are closing, and new contracts are being brought in for drivers which will mean increased hours and worse conditions.

If your son worked in the industry, would you rather see him sit back and accept this? Or would you expect him to fight back?

I wonder how many of those who disapprove of the strike approved of P&O sacking workers and hiring others at minimum wage? www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/24/po-ferries-boss-says-800-staff-were-sacked-because-no-union-would-accepts-its-plans
The link between this strike and what happened there is inescapable. Train companies and the government will try to break the RMT so that workers can be replaced. We are heading towards a society where people are working for less than they need to live and the fat cat bosses still maintain their huge salaries and bonuses. If the train companies can they will do the same as P&O did.

volver

Lynch's retort to Madeley's questioning about whether he cared if people died.

People will die because of Tory policies, not because of rail strikes.

I didn't see the Madeley interview, but will try to catch it on YouTube later. I have a soft spot for RM, but can't watch him without thinking of Alan Partridge. Aha!

Oh, he's in full Partridge mode!

Try to catch the Burley interview as well about picket lines. This is a bit of it.

twitter.com/HUncaring/status/1539166987032711169

Thanks, I'll look when I can. I'm in public just now so don't want to have the volume on.

What would I have the unions do? I would have them do the best for all of us. We have lived through a strange sort of hell since March 2020. Every tax payer kept their industry viable through this time. It's just the wrong time. Kids who suffered with online learning still doing exams, NHS and other front line workers don't deserve this, theatres/restaurants all need people to be able to travel.

I really fear a summer of discontent.

What will my son do? Take over child care from me! His wife can WFH and they will just about manage.

Just re read and I probably haven't answered fully. I really don't know what to suggest. Some of the safely sat at home seem to want a general strike. Who do they think will win in that situation?

Mamardoit

Just re read and I probably haven't answered fully. I really don't know what to suggest. Some of the safely sat at home seem to want a general strike. Who do they think will win in that situation?

Which posts make you think that Mamardoit?

In the meantime:

No 10 planning to tear up restrictions on City bosses’ pay amid cost of living crisis

www.newscon.net/no-10-planning-to-tear-up-restrictions-on-city-bosses-pay-amid-cost-of-living-crisis/?hl=en-gb

Unfortunately the full story is on inews and behind a paywall, but you can get the drift from this extract.

Let's look at some of the issues that are arising from the government's treatment of the current inflation problems and the likely outcome.

Richard Murphy put a very long thread on twitter covering this and has subsequently blogged it.

Now, I like Murphy because to my mind he is rigorously logical in his analysis of economic issues and writes clear and easy to understand explanations of complex topics.

From his blog:

So far I am not seeing anyone saying clearly enough why this is wrong, and why the irresponsible party in these negotiations is the government.
First, let’s start with why we have inflation right now. The causes have nothing whatsoever to do with wage rises. Inflation was initially caused by the poorly planned reopening from Covid which led to a sudden increase in demand for energy and severely disrupted supply chains.

Then we got a war that was unexpected, which has led to more disruption, massive increases in fuel prices, and sanctions which have had already had a big impact on food prices. And China is still imposing serious Covid constraints.

But when it comes to wage rises, the public sector has seen about 1.5% pay increases in the last year. The private sector is 8%, but maybe half of that is in bonuses and most of it is for those already on very high pay.

So, the reality is that amongst people on average and lower earnings pay rises are leaving people much worse than they were before Covid. What there most definitely is not is a wage rise spiral. Pay is dragging way behind inflation and most definitely not fuelling it.

In that case where is the money that everyone is paying for higher priced goods and services going, because it’s not going to employees? The answer is it is going to companies, banks and speculators in oil, gas and food. In each case it’s giving them additional profits.

What this inflation is doing in that case is massively shifting the rewards in society from people who work for a living to those who make money by speculation. This is why oil, energy companies, banks and big commodity trading companies are all reporting massive profits.

So, the government is sitting by, and is even encouraging inflation by pushing up prices (by increasing interest rates and by collecting more VAT and duties) whilst saying nothing to those companies that are really fuelling inflation, ad letting them get on with it.

But then it turns round and says it must stop wage rises because these are what is fuelling inflation, when glaringly obviously that is not true.

But let’s suppose for a moment that the government wins. Imagine it succeeds in forcing 9% real wage cuts on public sector employees this year, on top of the well-documented loss of earnings they have already suffered over the last decade. What happens then?

This will mean three things. First, around 5 million people in the country will have a great deal less to spend after all essential bills have been paid, if those suffering the pay cuts can still afford to do that.

What that means is that all the business in the retail and leisure sectors where these employees might have spent to date will be in turn see a massive drop in their income from these people at the time their own costs are rising rapidly.

And given that if the government wins then many employers in the private sector will also try to impose low pay deals, it’s likely that large parts of the UK working population will face having to cut large parts of their discretionary spending very soon.

So, those businesses those employees with lower pay would have spent with will, again, have less income. In turn they will then cut costs, or staff pay, or make people redundant. And in that case even more people will have less to spend and so a recessionary spiral begins.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2022/06/21/there-is-a-solution-to-public-sector-pay-disputes-if-the-government-wants-to-find-one/

There is a lot more, including proposed solutions. I hope some people are interested enough to read it all.

Govt 'planning to relax controls on City boss pay' whilst calling for restraint on pay rises

www.lbc.co.uk/news/govt-planning-relax-controls-city-boss-pay/

When interviewed by Nick Ferrari, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps suggested this was just a story put about by left-leaning newspapers.

What will my son do? Take over child care from me! His wife can WFH and they will just about manage.

I meant what would you have your son do if he worked in the rail industry? Would you rather he saw his earnings be eroded year on year, and live with the threat of redundancy hanging over him and with his hours and conditions under threat, or would you prefer to see him fight?

I blame the government and Johnson.

they got my support & my husband, Tories are running public services into the ground so they can say they're no good & replace them with private companies who have shareholders who expect big payouts making the private services poor value for money

I fully support the balloting of members of these unions - it is through their actions, as members of strong unions, that others will benefit. For as Bob Crowe so rightly said: "If you fight you may not win, but if you never fight you always lose".

Married to a ‘one time’ train driver here so I am a supporter of these folk. People don’t strike easily….. they don’t get paid ! And money becomes very tight. I know …I’ve been there and done that!

They don't have my support, I don't agree with any one effectively holding the public to ransom to get their point across - I work for a small company and if I'm not happy with my pay, pension, working conditions, I could go on strike but the only person really affected would be me! If you have a grievance, this can only be resolved by talking to your bosses.

I appreciate that inflation is well over 9% but I didn't get a pay rise anywhere near that so why should members of certain unions be paid that? When inflation is very low, are these people happy to accept a very low pay rise?

When inflation is very low, are these people happy to accept a very low pay rise?

Well...yes...

I obviously come from a different world, my experience of strikes was that they produced two types of people - the bullies and the bullied.

Jeanraff

I obviously come from a different world, my experience of strikes was that they produced two types of people - the bullies and the bullied.

As opposed to the reverse, where the employers bullied the workers?

Why are the government not getting involved? Don’t they own at least one rail company and Network Rail?

And why is Keir being criticised for not wanting Labour MP’s on the picket lines? It’s obvious that the Tory supporting press will splash photos of the all over their front pages and say this is what a country with a Labour government would be like. And while I’m having a moan why are these Tuesday cabinet meetings being shown on tv. It’s pure propaganda.

Doodledog

*What will my son do? Take over child care from me! His wife can WFH and they will just about manage.*

I meant what would you have your son do if he worked in the rail industry? Would you rather he saw his earnings be eroded year on year, and live with the threat of redundancy hanging over him and with his hours and conditions under threat, or would you prefer to see him fight?

I really don't know. But causing misery for others many of whom are worse off can't be the answer. It's early days but if it carries on support will fall away.

I'm not sure the unions in this case do have the clout they think they have. Some workers do have the power to bring the country to it's knees in days. Tanker drivers, utility supply etc. If these workers took action the government would have to take note.

By the way DH was in the position you describe. Nothing he could do because he worked in the private sector. Wasn't much fun not being able to pay the mortgage because of hike in interest rate and buying 7p cans of beans in Aldi.

My suppoet too. When bosses have and MPs have inflation busting pay rises it is incongrous to say that a half % of inflation figure is unreasonable. Seen on headline today Boris tried to shoehorn Carrie into two jobs! Do we need any more proof that the only reason he is in No.10 is for his sole befefit?