What are your views on unions & strikes?

MaizieD
I thought that might be the case.

MerylStreep

I thought that might not be clear. Within reason I believe that striking is the only weapon that the working man has.
I also believe that for the vast majority of union members striking is the last resort.
Short of being at that negotiating table non of us know the facts.

I find myself in the strange position of agreeing with you, MS.

I agree Athrawes that now is not the time.

We have a family meet-up in London next Saturday, hotel rooms booked and paid for, restaurant deposits paid.

Looks like we shall all be driving.

Riverwalk

I'm a supporter of trades unions and the right to strike but am very conflicted on wide-scale transport strikes.

From Tuesday to Sunday many low-paid front-line workers who can't work from home will be badly affected in London as Transport for London services are also involved. This is from the TFL website:

Tue 21 June-Sun 26 June

TfL services and national rail will be affected by strikes from Tue 21 to Sun 26 June.

•London-wide strikes affecting Tube and other TfL services on Tuesday 21 June and services until mid-morning on Wednesday 22 June
•National rail strikes on Tuesday 21, Thursday 23 and Saturday 25 June affecting Elizabeth line and London Overground services, and some Tube services, on strike days and until mid-morning on the days after strikes

On Tuesday 21 June

•Avoid travel if possible
•Most TfL and national rail services will be severely disrupted or not running, including:
•The Tube
•London Overground
•The Elizabeth Line
•London Trams
•National rail (nationwide)
•Buses, the DLR and any other services which are running will be extremely busy with queues to board
•If you have to travel, finish your Tube or rail journey by 18:00
•London Overground services will run 07:30-18:30

On Wednesday 22 June

•No Tube services will run before 08:00
•Avoid making Tube journeys until mid-morning - disruption is likely to continue
•Reduced service on the London Overground and Elizabeth line until mid-morning

On Thursday 23 to Sunday 26 June

•Strikes on national rail services (nationwide) on Thurs 23 and Sat 25 June
•Reduced service on the London Overground and Elizabeth line (where TfL uses national rail assets) as well as parts of the Tube on Thurs 23 and Sat 25 June
•London Overground services will run 07:30-18:30 on Thurs 23 and Sat 25 June
•Disruption following strikes likely on the Tube, Elizabeth line and London Overground on Friday 24 and Sun 26 June

tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tube-strike

How will the army of minimum-wage Carers get out and about to their 15-minute assignments with the most vulnerable?

I too am a supporter of unions I wonder if workers employed by large behemoths such as Amazon are allowed to be represented by a union, I would like to think so, but from all their testaments I've read they seem to be perpetually stuffed by unscrupulous unaccountable employers.

I do however agree with this post by Riverwalk. The people who I know a couple of family members in particular who work in London will simply work from home, they're doing it several days a week anyway, but what of those who can't work from home, many doing vital jobs, how are they supposed to get to work, it costs a fortune to drive into London now taking the congestion charges into account. So many ancillary businesses supporting industry in London have gone to the wall since the pandemic.

I thought that might not be clear. Within reason I believe that striking is the only weapon that the working man has.
I also believe that for the vast majority of union members striking is the last resort.
Short of being at that negotiating table non of us know the facts.

MerylStreep

MaizieD
This strike isn’t just about workers intransigence
They very rarely are.

I'm not altogether sure how to take that comment, MerylStreep. Care to clarify?

RMT union isn't even affiliated to Labour.

Just saw this

Anniebach

MaizieD a summer of discontent may get Johnson out but still keep the tories in . People know the unions have power in the Labour Party, too much power.

I think you are correct Anniebach

MaizieD a summer of discontent may get Johnson out but still keep the tories in . People know the unions have power in the Labour Party, too much power.

I understand the reason for strikes generally but we're now in a situation which needs all the support we need to get this country back to a modicum of normality after Covid. I don't think it is right to have a strike at the moment. In fact I think it unfair to, for example, hospital and care home staff as they are not well paid compared to other organisations and children in schools need to get back to learning - online is not good enough. So, no I don't support it in the current climate

I read in the newspapers that the unions turned down a 2.2% and also a 4% pay rise. Is that true?

I don’t support this particular strike. It will achieve very little and the people who suffer because of it are the lowest paid.
And what about the school students who are sitting important exams next week? Haven’t they suffered enough?

Anniebach

Yammy a general strike would be a disaster and the winter of
discontent gave us Thatcher

Perhaps a summer of discontent would get Johnson out. Have you considered that?

Especially as the problems are all of the tory's making. Very deliberately so in the case of the RMT strike it seems...

MaizieD
This strike isn’t just about workers intransigence
They very rarely are.

I suppose I was musing what criteria are used to decide who has the right to strike and who doesn't.
I suppose there is no such thing as a ‘right to strike’ that is granted - originally, strikers faced transportation and imprisonment as it was illegal to organise labour, so it was fought for, not given. It depends on how far people are prepared to go to keep (or regain) the rights those people fought so hard to get.
As it happens my police family members don't think they should have the right to strike, but the lack of that bargaining power for pay and conditions does result in little to no improvement for them.
Which proves that union membership and action helps those who take it, and is why I am in favour of belonging to a union.
Orgreave was dreadful, but many (maybe most) of the officers today weren't even born then.
No, probably not. Those who do remember it will never forget though - in fact it is the sort of thing that passes into folk memory, like Hillsborough. To say that the police were most definitely not supportive of unions is to understate the case, so I very much doubt that there will be any sympathy towards officers who would like to have union support now. It’s a shame that this will affect younger officers who may have different views, but I would fully understand if the TUC refused to support the POA if they asked for their help. Maybe, as you say though, time will have healed? It’s possible.

Indeed Annie, who would want another general strike.

Yammy a general strike would be a disaster and the winter of
discontent gave us Thatcher

Joseanne

Thanks Casdon.
DH could take the bus but the journey time is 6 hours, whereas the train is just over 2 hours. That's 2 days spent travelling to do 3 days work. He also gets dvt problems in his leg if he can't walk about when travelling.

I can see the problem if it takes six hours Joseanne, it’s an alternative for many but not for your husband unfortunately. I have to drive for an hour to drop him off at the most convenient bus stop, but at least for my son the bus journey is only 3.5 hours compared with 2, so it’s doable for him.

Joseanne, could your husband rearrange his work for a different week? It’s the only solution I can think of for him. I certainly wouldn’t want to travel six hours on a bus to go to work.

I’m not a fan of strikes. I went on strike once, when the NUT called a one day strike. I didn’t like doing it but felt I couldn’t refuse. It was only one day in my entire lifetime but I stayed quietly at home rather than go on any marches. It was towards the end of my career otherwise I would have changed my membership to a non striking teacher’s association.
So on the whole, no, I don’t agree with strikes.

Thanks Casdon.
DH could take the bus but the journey time is 6 hours, whereas the train is just over 2 hours. That's 2 days spent travelling to do 3 days work. He also gets dvt problems in his leg if he can't walk about when travelling.

silverlining48

It costs strikers money as they won’t get paid, but the only power the workers have is to withdraw their labour.
United they stand but divided...they are weak and get ignored.

What else can they do? Obviously negotiate but employers generally obstruct because they are profit motivated.

The government is preventing the employers from settling (see my post last night 23.28). This strike isn't just about workers' intransigence.

The General Strike was 100 years ago when social conditions were different from today. Not only were there few, if any, alternative sources of employment open to the principal strikers, the miners, but there was high unemployment which meant that they could easily be replaced by men willing to to accept poor pay and conditions for the sake of actually having a job. 2 million unemployed, principally in Wales and northern England. It was an employers' market.

Today we have (supposedly) full employment and over 1 million job vacancies. Skilled workers, any workers, are not so easily replaced. The employer/employee positions are reversed.

I feel that the lesson from 1926 (and the 1980's miners' strike) is don't strike when the cards are stacked against you. The hand is more in favour of workers today.