Tories lose both by-elections.

I don’t see the LibDems as a protest party. I’m pleased to see them being taken seriously again, because they’re talking seriously.
I lost respect during the Clegg years. Never saw him as a serious politician, especially during that debate with Gordon Brown and Cameron. They were both serious politicians, unlike we agree with Nick
The way they propped up the disgusting bedroom tax, u til no longer in coalition, when the remembered it was shameful, put me right off them.
Good to see them back as a political force. We need PR

Widely held by readers of the right wing gutters press.

I don’t read the Express varian but it’s a widely held belief. ?

If the Liberal Democrats were only a "protest party" as described by the Daily Express, do you think we would have had a successful LibDem District Council for more than 35 years?

Lib Dems should rename themselves the Protest vote party. Ed Davy is one of the most deluded politicians we have and there is a lot to chose from these days. He's probably thinking he's going to be the next PM. Remember what happened to the last Lib Dem leader who thought she was going to be PM?

An accurate view,*Chocolatelovinggran*. The "distraction" model pulled out once again. It says a lot

Oh, ignore my post - move on! ?

Corbyn always struck me as an ‘eternal student’ rebel backbencher
Forgive me for taking half of your sentence and commenting on it Urmstongran but yes, that is my view too. Backbench rebels are an essential part of our democracy but I'm not sure about them as leaders in our country.
We need more middle-of-the- road stability which we don't have ow either!

He didn't complete his Polytechnic course (no shame in that, of course) because he got sidetracked by the Trades Union movement.
His parents were Labour activists, both very clever and with excellent qualifications and good careers.
I do sometimes wonder what they thought of him giving up on his Higher education and if they were disappointed.

It's good news that people voted tactically to get the Tories out. Let's hope they do so again across the country at the next GE. Johnson is shameless and won't resign - he has to be pushed out but his Cabinet of toadies are too spineless to act.

Chocolatelovinggran

Why are we revisiting Jeremy Corbyn? He has not been the leader of the Labour Party for quite some time . There seems to be no interest in revisiting previous leaders of the Conservative party - unless I've missed an acrimonious debate about Theresa May?
We should be looking at the here and now- and the current leader of the Conservatives has ...well, perhaps I'll leave that there.

An accurate view,*Chocolatelovinggran*. The "distraction" model pulled out once again. It says a lot.

We have an opposition with a leader and front bench who stand head and shoulders above the Government front bench in simple believability.

At the last election, Labour was told they could not contemplate power again for at least ten years. But look where the much-maligned Starmer has brought them. And then look where the leader of the so-called Conservative Party, now actually run by British Nationalists, has taken them. They will be pariahs when it comes to trust and honesty for decades.

Joseanne

^Corbyn always struck me as an eternal student^ but eternal students are forever learning and Corbyn never got off the starting blocks. Didn't he chuck his uni course in after a year?

He always reminded me of those people standing outside the student union at lunchtime, dishing out Marxist Society leaflets, and the Socialist Worker. (late 60s).

I once got into trouble at home when my mother found a Marxist Society leaflet in my coat pocket - she’d borrowed the coat to nip to the shops.

True-blue Tory parents simply would not believe that I had not been ‘got at’, that I had simply taken a leaflet thrust at me. At the time I was not remotely interested in politics.

Many years later I threw this back at them during a row when they reproached me for never having talked to them.

‘Why would I, when you never bloody listened?’

To be fair, they did then admit that they’d been wrong.

The opposition were in talks with TM and Starmer didn't want to reach an agreement going against labour, as he wanted the job of leader he got it but but doing poor job people still favour Johnson over Starmer as leader in poll

He should be miles ahead but is not

One of the reasons given by voters for turning away from the Tories was their immigration policy and the cruelty inflicted on innocent people.

I see Patel was condemned by the courts last week for the appalling conditions she was keeping asylum seekers in barracks.

But what actually scuppered May’s deal was the Tory ERG of whom Johnson was almost certainly a member.

That needs repeating and repeating and repeating for the benefit of the brexit supporters who keep trying to pin the blame on 'remainers'. The ERG has been driving this all along.

And, if IRC, the DUP had a hand in it as well.

It was Starmer that wouldn't except Teresa May deal

It’s not the job of an opposition MP who is anti-Brexit to support a pro-leave PM.

But what actually scuppered May’s deal was the Tory ERG of whom Johnson was almost certainly a member.

Both constituents voted heavily for leave.

The Brexit factor no longer exists as a tool.

Katie59

Theresa May was a victim of her own extremists, she deserved better, the deal Johnson accepted was no better than the deal she could have had if allowed.

I believe we would be in a much better state now it that had happened despite Brexit.

It was Starmer that wouldn't except Teresa May deal

Quite agree, Katie59. My point was that discussion around the current state of the parties seem in one case only, endlessly debating a previous leader, rather than the present incumbent. No one seems to see this as odd, when it doesn't happen both ways.

The interviewers kept interrupting wouldn't give Jeremy Corbyn time to speak. He was the one that was respectful didn't loose his cool. I did see onece when he had to say won't you let me finish the question.

Jeremy talks to people of all stripes to get to the issues.
Jeremy with his secretary got on top of and sorted the backlog of casses left by Nicol some his team as we now know in the Forde Report were working to stop a Corbyn win.

Jeremy has done a video a frank discussion covering lots of topics with Declassified about How the media stopped him becoming PM.

And Whistle blower on Dorset Eye
YouGov poll
We did a fantastic debate poll in the hours following the debate that Corbyn took part in. The results were stark – Corbyn won by a country mile, and one in four Tory voters thought he was best. But despite having written the story and designed the charts, we were banned from releasing the story because it was too positive about Labour.

Similarly, there were a few “minor” methodology changes for the final poll which increase the Tory lead. This was done after pressure from high-ups (and despite protests from those of us who thought it wasn’t ok).

Nadhim Zahawi: it seems the co-founder of YouGov intimidated the polling firm into changing its methods – falsifying poll results – to make it seem the Tories were more popular than was true in 2017.

Theresa May was a victim of her own extremists, she deserved better, the deal Johnson accepted was no better than the deal she could have had if allowed.

I believe we would be in a much better state now it that had happened despite Brexit.

Corbyn always struck me as an eternal student but eternal students are forever learning and Corbyn never got off the starting blocks. Didn't he chuck his uni course in after a year?

Why are we revisiting Jeremy Corbyn? He has not been the leader of the Labour Party for quite some time . There seems to be no interest in revisiting previous leaders of the Conservative party - unless I've missed an acrimonious debate about Theresa May?
We should be looking at the here and now- and the current leader of the Conservatives has ...well, perhaps I'll leave that there.

Corbyn always struck me as an ‘eternal student’ rebel backbencher who was punching above his weight. Appeasement was his strong point and occasionally, flashes of his irritation and reported ill temper would surface. Also I was concerned that he was Momentum’s puppet with McDonnell (a wily man) pulling his strings in the background. Add in Dianne Abbott with her abacus regarding financial matters and my scepticism was complete.

Interesting Grany, you concentrated on my throw-away remark at the end rather than the substance and if consorting with terrorists and lying about is a sign of 'decency'. I will in future steer clear of anyone described as decenct.

Tony Benn had something Corbyn lacked and that was intelligence and a pelasant personality. I always felt he would be good company.

Blaming the media for Corbyn’s downfall is simplistic and wrong. Corbyn had time to convince people he was s prime minister in waiting, to dismiss allegation of anti semitism. He did neither. He was out of his depth when given real responsibility. He’s much happier in rebel/victim mode.

He was grumpy and irritable during interviews. The way his supporters continue to deny he presided over the increase in anti semitism says a great deal about them, none of it positive.

I can see why you might like to think that has happened/is happening in that way but I don't agree Grany [Sat 25-Jun-22 21:21:58]. Because of our election system, only a small percentage of voters elect a government and any party wanting power will have to appeal to as big a cross-section as possible.

I don't think the people you call "Socialists" (many claim that nomenclature) appeal enough to win under our current system or to have a large number of seats in their own right under any other. I don't mean they are wrong to believe what they believe, just that extremes do not attract large numbers of voters. The same applies to the far-right. They, on their own, will not be able to call on large numbers of votes. Without the amorphous Brexit allowing them to control the larger cohort of less extreme Conservatives, they would not have had anything like the vote they momentarily received.