Preferred pronoun badges at the Halifax bank.

I believe it is a load of old nonsense. We have managed so far in society without having to wear a label to say if we are male or female. I am not interested in this whole virtue signalling, trendy wokery that is being forced on us.

If someone wears a badge saying Gemma I would use the pronouns she/her/hers anyway so why put them on? I doubt many customers are that interested or bothered anyway and will just get on with their banking transactions in the usual way. All seems a bit of a fuss to me with Halifax trying to appear the good woke employer where it’s not necessary.

but some people who look like he might prefer to be referred to as she

In other words a Man.
Why should I be forced to call a man a She? Its ludicrous

maddyone

StarDreamer
Because if the name is Robin, the person is referred to as Robin. No need for pronouns at all.
Having said that, on the rarest times that I actually go into a bank and speak to a person, I find I have no need to use either their name or their pronouns.

Exactly this.

I can think of no circumstance in which it would matter. If I were talking to Robin, I would (if I used the name at all), simply say 'Robin'. If I talked about Robin to someone else (unlikely), I would say something like 'Robin suggested I talk to you about a mortgage'. If Robin could hear, I would include him or her in the conversation, rather than talk as though they weren't there, and if out of earshot, why would Robin care how I referred to him or her? It seems very self-absorbed to worry about how people refer to you when you are not there.

It's just a PR stunt to get Halifax into the news. It would say more about Halifax's stance on equality if they closed their gender pay gap, which is high.

You are not being forced. Halifax say youcan take your account elsewhere and as they obviously don’t care about you as a customer you may as well do so. If you can find a bank branch near you that is as so many have closed.

I really don't care what Halifax put on their badges - I would like it if they just reinstated counter service. My local branch has a line of ATMs with two very bored looking staff sitting around doing very little.

I just recalled that I used to be mildly admonished if I used a pronoun when describing someone.

"Who's she? the cat's mother?"

would it be 'the cat's person' now?

I think it's all rather silly and maybe someone should have a word with the Halifax's Twitter guy, Andy. He's got a bit carried away.

I'm not concerned about anyone having any pronoun. It won't affect me. They can call themselves what they want. However I do wonder if telling people to leave and actually giving them instructions on how to close their accounts is a rather foolish thing to do.

Most people who wouldn't have cared about the pronoun business might not like Halifax's response to those who do.

Just waiting for someone other than Andy to clarify the situation.

If, for some reason, I need to mention 'Gemma' to someone else in the bank I would just say Gemma.

Speaking elsewhere, about the helpful/unhelpful bank clerk, say, what does it matter if I get their pronoun wrong?

I have a Halifax credit card that I use for online purchases only.
I have no other banking with them so it won't be difficult to use a different credit card, which I haven't used for a while, instead.

I see that HSBC and NatWest are offering their staff the same choice. For all I know, other banks and building societies too.

I guess those it bothers will have to do a lot of shopping around.

Cabbie21

I can’t see the point. When speaking to a bank employee I might need to say You, as in Could you give me my balance please? ( though a machine can do that). Why would I need to refer to a third person?
There is simply no need. I just don’t see why gender comes into a transaction anyway.

The last time I actually used a name that was on a name badge she/he/they looked at me as if I was a stalker.

I would be very interested to know what percentage of staff at the Halifax aren't sure what gender they are.

It’s Pride Month. Halifax is signed up with Stonewall for diversity points. Rules are being foisted to give publicity to self ID trans ideology. Halifax pay them lots of money to get points showing how inclusive they are. It is insidious.
If you see pronouns declared by an institution or company you know they have been captured by Stonewall Who have traded their respected name protecting same sex relationships to one that insists that men feeling they are women are women. Women in the meantime are being reduced to body parts in legal documents eg (persons with cervixes etc) It is Willy waving.

One bank employee might send you to speak to another and you could say something like "Sam's computer was playing up so s/he sent me over to you."
But you could just as well say "Sam sent me to you because there's a problem with the computer over there."

grannygranby

It’s Pride Month. Halifax is signed up with Stonewall for diversity points. Rules are being foisted to give publicity to self ID trans ideology. Halifax pay them lots of money to get points showing how inclusive they are. It is insidious.
If you see pronouns declared by an institution or company you know they have been captured by Stonewall Who have traded their respected name protecting same sex relationships to one that insists that men feeling they are women are women. Women in the meantime are being reduced to body parts in legal documents eg (persons with cervixes etc) It is Willy waving.

Absolutely.

I can just about cope with he, him, his and she, her, hers but what are all the others supposed to mean like Ve, ver and viz?

I was brought up not to ever use somebody's christian name unless they specifically asked to do so, equally at nearly 80 years old I don't wish to be called by my christian name at the bank or anywhere else unless I am very well acquainted with the person concerned. My surname with the prefix Mrs has served me well over the years and no doubt will continue to do so, a point I made clear some years ago at our local bank. Therefore I would never refer to anyone working in the bank by their christian name, but rather 'your employee advised me etc' (saying 'that person' sounds rather rude). or just 'hello, I've been advised that you can help me'? This neatly avoids having to use a name and saves having to put on glasses to read said name!!

Doodle

I can just about cope with he, him, his and she, her, hers but what are all the others supposed to mean like Ve, ver and viz?

They are the ultimate in self-indulgence . Not only is a stranger supposed to know which variation on what is a personal matter applies on a given day, but to memorise a list of terms that didn't exist five years ago.

There was an item on TV News yesterday (can't remember which channel) in honour of Pride, and schoolchildren were interviewed about things like sexual orientation and 'gender'. They were about 11 years old. One girl said she was something I can't remember, bisexual and gender fluid, and stumbled over the definition as though she'd memorised it and forgotten bits. I thought that was perfectly usual for an 11 year old, really. She'd probably be just starting to become aware of herself as a sexual being - a bit earlier than most of us did, perhaps - but wouldn't quite understand it all. A boy of about the same age said that when he told people his own catechism of identifications they would laugh and ask if they could identify as a toaster or a tortoise, and he looked really hurt. I felt for him, as adults shouldn't laugh at children (it is hurtful, as is ridiculing something that someone takes seriously), but couldn't help thinking that these kids are being set up for a world of pain by this sort of thing. They take 'misgendering' very badly, and it is an entirely created hurt that didn't exist until recently.

The closest I can remember to that was when I was about 6, and my mum had taken me to the hairdresser where they used a nit-infested comb. I had waist-length hair, and when I got nits she had it cut to a short bob. I remember getting off a bus and an old lady who I'd let off before me said 'thank you, son'. I was really upset, as I hadn't wanted my hair cut in the first place, and in those days the gender signifiers were very strict (buttons on cardigans, suitable colours, toys and definitely haircuts). Being taken for a boy flew in the face of everything I'd been taught was 'right', and I was sure that everyone would be laughing at me.

I can, therefore, understand a bit of what children feeling 'misgendered' must feel, and sympathise massively with the ones who feel that they are 'in the wrong body', but can't help thinking that they only feel like this because they have had 'gender' thrust at them so relentlessly.

Until the obsession with 'gender' began, I thought we'd moved on from the strict gender rules of the past, and that children could express themselves how they liked. IMO that is much healthier than when I was six; but it seems that we are going back to those days, and that children will feel the way I did every day of their lives if they buy into it all. It's very sad.

(And yes, Jaberwok. I think that referring to people by their given names is presumptuous, too. And almost worse when it is 'customer to employee', as it feels like a Lady talking to her maid.)

Good post Doodledog.

I can't usually read name badges because they are usually designed to be read from a much closer distance than dealing with a bank/building society cashier usually allows.

So they are useless as well as being silly woke nonsense.

I agree with Urms that the silly buggers (not the cashiers, obv) may well have shot themselves in the foot. The Halifax has been going downhill for a long time now, more oe less since it became a bank rather than a building society.

You're quite right D.d, equally calling somebody a 'person' sounds arrogant and dismissive. I can remember when I was about 10, maybe a bit younger, really wishing that I'd been born a boy, boys seemed to have more freedom, not exactly more privileges, but it seemed a bit that way. I loved to wear boys jeans, shirts and so on. (My maternal uncle had a Mens Outfitters shop,so we we got casual clothes from there - cheaper!) this wish to be a boy lasted till I was about 13, when I discovered "boys" and was extremely glad to be a girl and have never looked back. My mother put it down to a phase (tomboy) and made nothing of it,nobody did, and of course she was right. I have to say I think it's wrong to burden pre pubescent children with anxiety about their sexuality. How you feel at 11 can be very different from feelings at 13.

Who’s she, the person with a cervix that gave birth to the cat?

What if they had badges with Gransnet style usernames

PoshMoneyCounter

none_of_your_businessa/none_of_your_businessam/none_of_your_businessae

I don't mind what the staff wear on their badges if it makes them feel better about themselves. However, I left the Halifax because they were unhelpful, made stupid mistakes and it ties up too much of my time to sort things out. As far as I am concerned they need to spend as much time sorting out their customer services and processes as looking after their staff.

Who’s she the cats mother?
Well bizarrely there are increasing numbers of young people identifying as feline.
Yes really!

grannygranby

It’s Pride Month. Halifax is signed up with Stonewall for diversity points. Rules are being foisted to give publicity to self ID trans ideology. Halifax pay them lots of money to get points showing how inclusive they are. It is insidious.
If you see pronouns declared by an institution or company you know they have been captured by Stonewall Who have traded their respected name protecting same sex relationships to one that insists that men feeling they are women are women. Women in the meantime are being reduced to body parts in legal documents eg (persons with cervixes etc) It is Willy waving.

This is the truth. Stonewall capture is indeed insidious, and a huge willy waving exercise.