Preferred pronoun badges at the Halifax bank.

Sago

Who’s she the cats mother?
Well bizarrely there are increasing numbers of young people identifying as feline.
Yes really!

My 7 year old grandaughter is ASD and when she gets stressed she goes into cat mode! Her mother is extremely up on gender issues (I have to confess she's taught me quite a lot in child rearing) so maybe this feline imitation is gender driven! Although we were bemused to start with, we just see it now as a coping mechanism and my only worry is how the world will view her feline behaviour if it carries on into her adulthood.

The only female Robyn I knew spelt it with a Y. She was the third daughter and a disappointment to both parents.

That’s a much bigger issue to my mind.

How many of us ever actually see any bank worker face to face?

When we do and talk to them we do not use any pronouns when addressing them.

Beware people.......this carefully orchestrated trying to whip up bad feeling about such things as pronouns is just another attempt by the media (most of it owned and run by right-wing tory supporters and donators), to prevent people getting angry about the continuing botch up being made by the government in every section of our lives.

Watch out as it will increase as the months go on - in the lead up to the next election.

I cannot understand why people should get so upset and annoyed as to what badges work people may decide to wear. What on earth does it matter?

Anyway, to those people who said they were leaving Halifax (and there were not really that many no matter how hard this story was built up), and probably did not - the banks they claim they were going probably already have a similar policy in place.

'This word 'woke' seems to me to be a substitute for saying being kind and respecting other people........but that would explain why the right wing are so opposed to it

It’s a Bank not a mouthpiece for Marxist ideology. What if a someone cannot read or has eyesight issues and misgenders a person because what their senses tells them is a man is now a transgender woman. they will be terrified they may be reported for a hate crime. Be thrown out of the bank. It’s an illogical insidious form of thought /speech control.

Well that's contrived...

If a person is wearing a badge like this and if someone has bad eyesight and if someone misgenders them and if the bank person is offended and if the client is thrown out of the bank and if they get reported for a hate crime...

Optional words on a badge. Marxist thought control, that's what that is.

It doesn’t bother me at all that people express their preferred pronoun. I don’t understand why anyone would get worked up about it on name badges etc - it’s not hurting anyone. It’s actually quite commonplace on many professional emails now. As a bit of a ‘language pedant’ I prefer the use of someone’s preferred pronoun rather than the more generic use of ‘they’. When used in place of a singular name ‘they’ is grammatically incorrect which makes my hair stand on end. I know, I know… It’s how language evolves I suppose. But, for me, preferred pronoun all the way

Andy M, of the Halifax, suggested that people should move their accounts.
Perhaps if Andy had kindly explained instead, as some on here are doing on Halifax's behalf, people wouldn't have decided to leave.

It’s a Bank not a mouthpiece for Marxist ideology

Strange - don’t remember reading Marx’s views on preferred pronouns.

'This word 'woke' seems to me to be a substitute for saying being kind and respecting other people........but that would explain why the right wing are so opposed to it

???Franbern

As a language pedant LizzieDrip, it doesn't bother you to use 'she' for someone who is clearly male or 'he' for someone clearly female?

There is a lot more to this subject than just being kind or polite.

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

"Incongruent pronouns also make your brain work much harder; not just when you are using them, but when you are receiving them as information. You are working constantly to keep that story straight in your head. Male or female? Which one, again? Concentrate harder. Ignore your instincts, ignore your reaction."

FarNorth

Andy M, of the Halifax, suggested that people should move their accounts.
Perhaps if Andy had kindly explained instead, as some on here are doing on Halifax's behalf, people wouldn't have decided to leave.

Andy M of Halifax told a particular person they were free to move their account which is the same message everybody gets if they ask to move their account. It wasn't an aggressive outburst, just info for the particular person who was asking. But the message has been selectively quoted by people who are mortally offended by Halifax's stance in this.

As a language pedant LizzieDrip, it doesn't bother you to use 'she' for someone who is clearly male or 'he' for someone clearly female

No, it doesn’t bother me because I’m using language in a way that is respectful to the person. And in some instances it’s not clearly obvious whether the person is male or female.

Here's a screenshot of Andy M making that suggestion.

But you can't cope with using a respectful 'they', Lizzie, even if a person had that on their badge, or they asked you to?

some one I have to correspond with online who is a man, known as a man, underwrite he/him under his sign off. I actually fully admit, I am boggled by it and I completely ignorant as to why someone would do that
Jane
she/her
???

LizzieDrip

It doesn’t bother me at all that people express their preferred pronoun. I don’t understand why anyone would get worked up about it on name badges etc - it’s not hurting anyone. It’s actually quite commonplace on many professional emails now. As a bit of a ‘language pedant’ I prefer the use of someone’s preferred pronoun rather than the more generic use of ‘they’. When used in place of a singular name ‘they’ is grammatically incorrect which makes my hair stand on end. I know, I know… It’s how language evolves I suppose. But, for me, preferred pronoun all the way

So if someone 'identifies' as non-binary and uses the pronoun 'they', how does that fit with your view of grammar versus preference?

And how does the situation where increasing numbers of workplaces are insisting on employees giving pronouns in email signatures suggest that 'it's not hurting anyone'? Apart from there being no logical link between one and the other, it does hurt people who don't believe in 'gender' and don't want to use them, but don't have the power to refuse. As email sigs are, to all intents and purposes, public, this insistence also 'outs' people who may not want to make their so-called 'gender preferences' known outside of the workplace . Halifax are not, apparently, insisting on staff using pronouns, but a number of employers do (on Stonewall's insistence) and it is far from a hurt-free situation for many people.

FarNorth as I stated, the use of ‘they’ is a grammatical issue. However, I also recognise that language is a dynamic, evolving entity and this is an example of language evolution. Of course I would use ‘they’ if it was a person’s preferred pronoun. Of course I can ‘cope’ with that! The use of respectful language is more important than my pedantry. I was merely expressing a perspective. Language, like everything in life, moves on and we should move on with it. I didn’t like ‘Google’ being used as a verb when it first started but, actually, it works so I now happily google along with the best of ‘em

JaneJudge

some one I have to correspond with online who is a man, known as a man, underwrite he/him under his sign off. I actually fully admit, I am boggled by it and I completely ignorant as to why someone would do that
Jane
she/her
???

It will probably be because his employer is complying with the Stonewall rules that allow people to pay them large sums of money to be 'awarded' Diversity Champion status if they 'persuade' employees to declare their pronouns on email signatures, even though this is a massive invasion of privacy for some people, and a pain in the neck for many others.

FarNorth

As a language pedant LizzieDrip, it doesn't bother you to use 'she' for someone who is clearly male or 'he' for someone clearly female?

There is a lot more to this subject than just being kind or polite.

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

^"Incongruent pronouns also make your brain work much harder; not just when you are using them, but when you are receiving them as information. You are working constantly to keep that story straight in your head. Male or female? Which one, again? Concentrate harder. Ignore your instincts, ignore your reaction."^

There are some instincts that it is absolutely right to ignore. These are the ones that make us fearful of people who are different in some way, or make us fear all change. They are behind most racism and most sexism.
So actually being asked to question those instincts is probably good for us and good for society.
Relying on instant reactions is not a good thing. Who hasn't sometimes jumped to the wrong conclusion?
So if chosen pronouns does make us think more that is probably a good thing. It also means that when someone has a name that isn't easily identifiable, or which can be used for either gender (like Sam) the chosen pronoun is known. Really why would anyone object to something which simply clarifies things?

FarNorth

Here's a screenshot of Andy M making that suggestion.

And the person he was answering was called Warren. Not sure if he even has a Halifax account. I thought the response what quite moderate after someone accused the Halifax of pathetic virtue signalling and trying to alienate people.

The Mail, GBNews and so on seem to disagree though.

Sussexborn

The only female Robyn I knew spelt it with a Y. She was the third daughter and a disappointment to both parents.

That’s a much bigger issue to my mind.

I still remember the little girl near us who was named Robyn/Robin, never did know which.
She also had extremely short hair and introduced herself to me and little dd by saying, ‘My name’s Robin and I’m NOT a boy!’
I could only think ‘disappointed parent’ and really did feel for her.

And the person he was answering was called Warren.
Why is that relevant volver?

You suggested that Andy M was responding to someone asking about closing their account. That wasn't so.

Why do you assume that Andy and Warren should both be called 'he' although they haven't told you?

You mean ....... some people can actually get into a bank and see a real person ??????????

“If anyone referred to me as a lady, I’d be having a word with them”
Touchy aren’t we? Ridiculous ?

What about Sam and Steve?