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Is this what Leave voters wanted?

(28 Posts)
MaizieD Thu 30-Jun-22 17:43:59

The experience of one SME, but it's happening to hundreds (if not thousands) They're either cutting back so far as to be almost unviable; relocating to the EU or going out of business.

Paul Carnahan @pacarnahan

This week we laid off most of the rest of our staff. TL/DR: It's down to Brexit. Not Covid. Not the war in Ukraine. We've got the figures. We know our business. Brexit did this.

(Carnanhan's prediction from 2 yeas ago:• Feb 13, 2018
For our family business, there's no doubt #Brexit will have an impact - the question is how bad it will be. Meanwhile, the chaos surrounding Brexit leaves us in limbo, unable to continue the expansion which has helped us create jobs and aid other firms. )

We sell fragrance oils to soap makers and cosmetic makers. Once, we sold hundreds of different products from a large warehouse. But while Brexiters insisted there would be no down sides, we watched business dwindle, no matter what steps we took.
We reduced our rented space. Gave up the big warehouse. Shrank our product line. We laid people off. We cut every cost we could, right down to bare bones, but it still wasn't enough. So now we've laid off all but one member of staff.
It's the job of the four members of our family to keep this company going, no matter what, not only so that we can support ourselves, but so that, one day, we can bring back the staff who supported us. That day might never come.
I've spoken about this a lot over the past six years, so I'll keep it brief. We're at the point where things that were once minor inconveniences - parcels returned due to newly-complicated customs arrangements - could be business-ending.
'Stop whining! Just adapt!' say those caring Brexiters. We adapted. We kept adapting. 'Are you ready for Brexit?' asked a government which gave us just 7 days between the revelation of the deal and the date of departure from the EU. We got ready for their Oven Ready Deal.
Then, after they'd made trade with our nearest neighbours permanently more costly and complex, driving away two thirds of our business, we adapted some more. And once we'd done that, they decided the deal wasn't so Oven Ready after all and started agitating for a trade war.
'Business thrives on challenges!', I've been told by people who know nothing about business. No, business thrives on stability, and we and countless other UK small-to-medium enterprises have had precious little of that over the past six years.
So here we are, with a shell of a once-thriving business, lucky for the firm to make in a year what it once would've made in a month. And despite everything we've had to overcome, the people who did this to us don't even have the guts to admit what they've done.
Their foot-soldiers on Twitter refuse point-blank to listen to those of us dealing with the fallout of their terrible choices. They refuse to accept basic matters of fact: Leaving the EU in such a chaotic, unplanned fashion has caused serious hardship.
The smug, sneering wreckers who instigated it all from their tax-haven boltholes fire potshots on Twitter while expenses-rich MPs cram another pile of consultancy fee cash into their wallets and blankly ignore any attempt to discuss the damage they've done.
And that leaves those of us on the front-line to hang on as best we can, after years of sounding the alarm, and watch as the damage mounts, the economy crumbles and real, serious harm creeps ever closer to everyone - even those still pretending none of it is happening.
The damage is coming your way. It's coming for everyone but the very privileged. There's no way to stop it now, especially when the people who caused it won't even admit that it exists and the people they fooled help spread their message.
We knew this was coming, because we knew better than to believe those who promised nothing but sunlit uplands. So we adapted. We did everything, professionally and personally, to get ready.
While we - and countless others like us - are preparing for the worst (and in some cases already enduring the worst) the people we elect and pay to look after us are lying to us.
We can't fix any of this until those in charge of it start telling the truth. And that won't happen as long as people happily swallow the lies and shout down anyone who tries to tell the truth.
The truth is very simple. Brexit has ruined our family business. Not Covid (we saw only a minor dip in 2020, during the deepest lockdowns). Not the war in Ukraine. The biggest collapse came at the end of the extension period in 2021. Two thirds drop, almost overnight.
We'll carry on and give it all we've got, because it matters. It matters that we create jobs, contribute to the local and national economy and support other businesses across the UK and EU. And it matters that the people who did this to us won't win.

silverlining48 Sat 02-Jul-22 07:22:41

In the 70 s we were called the sick man of Europe. I remember it well, and times were very hard,
It was only after we joined the common market that our lives started and continued to improve, but now, 50 years on, we are again in trouble.
I see no benefit whatsoever that the embarrassing idiot we have as PM ‘got Brexit done’. It isn’t ‘done’ by a long way and probably won’t be in my lifetime.
United we stand...and we stand alone.

Deedaa Fri 01-Jul-22 21:28:58

DD phoned me yesterday and said they'd just been turned down for another EU research grant. She said last year the grants they were given were down to 40% of pre Brexit figures and now they are down to 10%. And this is how Boris thinks we are going to be "World Beating" in science? If she can't finance all her research the university gets less money and less foreign students want to come here and we lose out all round.

HousePlantQueen Fri 01-Jul-22 21:18:56

I agree that if we ever manage to get some sort of agreement with the EU, the conditions will likely be onerous and far less generous than those we gave away. Almost worth it to hear all the brexiteers heads exploding. What sh**show it all is.

Dinahmo Fri 01-Jul-22 20:09:13

Greta It's very odd some of the excuses people come up with. I occasionally bought NZ lamb whilst I lived in the UK but preferred Welsh mountain - so much nicer but more expensive. Here in France we sometimes get NZ lamb. Cheaper than the locally grown but again, not as nice. It sells out very quickly and it's not too bad if larded with plenty of garlic and rosemary.

M0nica Fri 01-Jul-22 19:23:05

I am very pessimistic about us rejoining the EU. if we rejoin, we have to ask, but the EU will decide whether they want us or not.

It is quite possible, and who could blame them, if they decided we were more trouble than we are worth, what with Mrs Thatcher demanding ( and getting) rebates, BoJo and the Northern Ireland protocol. If we do rejoin, it will be on an agreement that is far more demanding and less generous than it was before

We may want to rejoin but the EU is quite likely to say b****r off.

MaizieD Fri 01-Jul-22 19:15:01

halfpint1

Honeysuckleberries

Now that we have seen what a disaster this has been, can we have another vote to rejoin? Would this even be possible? Could we negotiate a better deal to rejoin or are we now a total laughing stock? Has the rest of Europe noticed we have left?

just adding to this comment Maizie D
Maybe you didn't read all the replies on this thread

If you're adding to a comment, halfpint, it's always helpful to either paste the bit you're adding to into your reply, or to quote the whole post. There were 4 other posts between your post and the one you were 'adding to'. I had no clue that they were related...

Apologies for not being a mind reader.

growstuff Fri 01-Jul-22 19:04:46

Confused. Maizie couldn't have read the posts before she wrote the op.

halfpint1 Fri 01-Jul-22 18:41:47

Honeysuckleberries

Now that we have seen what a disaster this has been, can we have another vote to rejoin? Would this even be possible? Could we negotiate a better deal to rejoin or are we now a total laughing stock? Has the rest of Europe noticed we have left?

just adding to this comment Maizie D
Maybe you didn't read all the replies on this thread

AGAA4 Fri 01-Jul-22 15:27:57

Those who voted leave seem to have gone quiet. Maybe it is hitting home just what a disaster this is for our country.
Friends with small businesses are struggling now and as said above not because of Covid or the war in Ukraine solely caused by Brexit.

growstuff Fri 01-Jul-22 15:03:35

FT: Imports leap and exports fall.

HousePlantQueen Fri 01-Jul-22 13:58:25

This man's articulate, detailed story of the impact of the Brexit disaster is being repeated all over the country, but still its supporters will insist that they would vote for it again. Although I generally accept that we all are entitled to vote as we see fit, I will never forgive those who through their narrow minded little Englander mentality (being scrupulously polite here) foisted this social and economic disaster on this country. Even the BBC are beginning to report the negatives of Brexit so that says it all. To believe that anything promoted by, and to the benefit of the extreme right wing of this country will in anyway improve the life of the general public is deluded and idiotic in the extreme. The fact that Brexit was supported by Putin and Trump should have been warning enough.

Zonne Fri 01-Jul-22 10:28:33

MaizieD Paul Carnahan has a Brexit bingo card of responses he’s had whenever he’s raised the impact of Brexit.

I wonder how long it will be before I can start ticking them off on this thread.

Zonne Fri 01-Jul-22 10:23:18

I disagree that Cameron had no choice. Hardly any of the public at the time were bothered about EU membership. The usual suspects (John Major’s ‘bastards’) in the Tory party were, Farage was making some noise, and Cameron thought he might lose a few seats, and/or his position as party leader. He did this out of self-interest.

Similarly, most people would have been happy with a much softer Brexit, but Theresa May, also running scared of the ERG and Farage et al, set out her (their) red lines even before negotIations had started, and helped doom us to this.

Totally agree that those who voted for Johnson are making this mess - and a whole lot of other things - worse and it’s beyond my comprehension how people still defend this government.

MaizieD Fri 01-Jul-22 10:22:12

halfpint1

I'm sure Europe has more to think about than the failing British economy which wanted out and got it.

What does Europe have to do with the topic?

I posted it to try and find out what Leave voters might think of what is happening to SME businesses throughout the UK.

I know what 'Europe' thinks of it. It thinks we're stupid.

halfpint1 Fri 01-Jul-22 10:18:04

I'm sure Europe has more to think about than the failing British economy which wanted out and got it.

DiamondLily Fri 01-Jul-22 10:09:40

I agree that a huge amount of lies were told - as happens at election times as well. Lying is what politicians do.

Cameron, to be fair, did try to convince people that we were better staying in, but a small majority chose otherwise.

He had little choice but to have a referendum, as the pressure was building, with Farage and his party carrying on endlessly.

To be honest, I don't think Brexit has made anyone happy.

Many Brexiteers thought it would slash immigration, and it hasn't. The marvellous trade deals never happened. We are not saving money, and we have essential jobs that can't be filled. Brexit supporting farmers and fishermen were moaning on TV the other night, that Brexit, far from making them richer, as promised, has made their lives much harder, and less profitable.

Brexit politicians want us to pull further away and not deal with the EU at all.

Costs of everything are rocketing (although some of it is due to Covid and Ukraine).

It's been a mistake, but we are stuck with it now,

The best we can hope for is that a future government finds a way to have a better, more flexible arrangement with the EU around trade and co-operation.

Greta Fri 01-Jul-22 09:51:00

"...so democracy dictates that the result has to be abided by".

A true democracy should dictate that people are told the truth. I will never forgive David Cameron for calling the disastrous referendum. What maddens me is that it could so easily have been avoided. Referendums are advisory. I think most people understand what that means. But we had a PM who proudly declared that however the electorate voted ”we” i.e. the government would act upon it. Shame on him!

We seem to have a lot of gullible people, people who are willing to believe anything they are told as long as it fits their misguided beliefs. Recently an acquaintance told me he voted leave because he wanted to buy lamb from New Zealand. When I raised my eyebrows at this he said ”because when we were in the the EU we could only trade with EU”. Some so called reasons for leaving the EU just leave you speechless.

All difficulties are now blamed on the pandemic. Brexit seems to be a forbidden word.

BlueBelle, I agree with every word you have written.

BlueBelle Fri 01-Jul-22 05:25:02

Honeysuckle how could they let us back in they would never trust us we have lost our allies, our trading partners, we have lost so much and still people say they ve done a good job
Some folk are so stubborn ( or blinded) they can’t see past the nose on their face
I blame every single person who voted and continues backing that idiot and his cheating cronies for having no foresight, no thoughts of the future other than their personal grievances against Europe ‘for taking away our sovereignty, our feet and inches and making us buy straight bananas’
Democracy doesn’t play much of a part in life in England now Diamondlily Cameron should never have called for a referendum in the first place and then crawled back in the woodwork
We need people on the streets demanding things we sit and take it all and grumble
I ll never forgive Brexiteers for ruining the country

DiamondLily Fri 01-Jul-22 05:01:56

I don't think the country will ever go back into the EU now, but I do think another government will try to arrange more flexible trading arrangements with them.

It would make sense, as it's pretty chaotic at the moment.

I voted Remain, but the majority did vote to come out, so democracy dictates that the result has to be abided by.

Honeysuckleberries Fri 01-Jul-22 00:54:52

Now that we have seen what a disaster this has been, can we have another vote to rejoin? Would this even be possible? Could we negotiate a better deal to rejoin or are we now a total laughing stock? Has the rest of Europe noticed we have left?

MaizieD Thu 30-Jun-22 23:55:21

*Even if this government gets kicked out are Labour brave enough to change anything they sat on the fence at the last election to their downfall^

Whether we have a Labour government, or a Labour/Libdem 'coalition' after the next GE, I think that the first thing that they will do is seek realignment with EU regulations so as to make trading easier. The last poll I saw has 59% of the population saying that Brexit was a mistake. I don't think 'the people' would object overmuch.
BloJo appears to think that Brexit is his winning card. I think he's very much mistaken.

rosie1959 Thu 30-Jun-22 21:32:14

Dinahmo

rosie1959 How do you expect Paul Carnahan's family to get on with it the best they can? As he explained in great detail, they've tried. The oils needed for making soaps and cosmetics come from abroad. We don't have the reliable weather in the UK to prevent flowers, such s roses, from being ruined during heavy rainfall.

We are (or were) an entrepreneurial nation, made up of thousands of SMEs. Over the last 40 years or so many people will have taken advantage of the free movement of people to travel abroad to find supplies and new markets. They can no longer do this.

At any given period people traded throughout the known world. There may well have been tarrifs but the desire for new goods continued to grow. They can no longer do this with ease. Brexiteers tell us about the new markets that are waiting for us. But what have we got to sell? Whisky to Japan. They make their own so why buy ours?

We should not be letting this happen. We should be complaining and arguing until such time as the present govt has been kicked out. Perhaps then we can slowly move back to trading in a sensible manner with our nearest neighbours.

I would not even attempt to solve another businesses problems. I just pointed out that it unlikely to change in the near future. Even if this government gets kicked out are Labour brave enough to change anything they sat on the fence at the last election to their downfall

RichmondPark Thu 30-Jun-22 21:14:54

I feel so sorry for this man, his family and the people who have lost their jobs.

This must be a pattern that is being repeated throughout the country. The FT is reporting that due to Brexit the UK trade performance has fallen to its worst level on record.

www.ft.com/content/a31b4b8e-f9fc-4f1e-84c1-3632f194d05a

Dinahmo Thu 30-Jun-22 19:43:21

Ps Thanks Maizie for posting this. I just hope some Brexiteers will read and inwardly digest it without coming up with unhelpful suggestions.

Dinahmo Thu 30-Jun-22 19:41:53

rosie1959 How do you expect Paul Carnahan's family to get on with it the best they can? As he explained in great detail, they've tried. The oils needed for making soaps and cosmetics come from abroad. We don't have the reliable weather in the UK to prevent flowers, such s roses, from being ruined during heavy rainfall.

We are (or were) an entrepreneurial nation, made up of thousands of SMEs. Over the last 40 years or so many people will have taken advantage of the free movement of people to travel abroad to find supplies and new markets. They can no longer do this.

At any given period people traded throughout the known world. There may well have been tarrifs but the desire for new goods continued to grow. They can no longer do this with ease. Brexiteers tell us about the new markets that are waiting for us. But what have we got to sell? Whisky to Japan. They make their own so why buy ours?

We should not be letting this happen. We should be complaining and arguing until such time as the present govt has been kicked out. Perhaps then we can slowly move back to trading in a sensible manner with our nearest neighbours.