Why is Keir Starmer trying to put so many voters off?

VS, what rights do trans people not have that don’t involve impacting negatively on females or removing rights that females previously held?

Starmer's problem is that he's trying to appeal to both sides of the trans debate.

And, that doesn't work.

I'm sure he does know what a woman "is" - and it doesn't ever involve a penis. ?

He needs to come out and say it.

He has with the EU - no going back there now. Rightly or wrongly.

But, overall, I think he's a fairly honest politician, he seems to respect women, and, on that basis, and the fact that this corrupt, sleazy government need to be gone, I'd vote for Labour again now.?

Ah, you mean ‘Brexit in name only’ we had two elections where the voters had the option to vote for parties that wanted that and that’s why we ended up with the current PM.

Do you really want the Labour Party to repeat that mistake, again?

martinthebandit

Ah, you mean ‘Brexit in name only’ we had two elections where the voters had the option to vote for parties that wanted that and that’s why we ended up with the current PM.

Do you really want the Labour Party to repeat that mistake, again?

Who 'means Brexit in name only'?

I suspect that now that voters are living the reality of Brexit and experiencing what a disaster it is, and what a disaster Johnson has been, there will be little appetite for voting tory again.

Closer alignment with what was our biggest market would be greeted with relief by many sections of the business community and they know now that the ukiptory party can't deliver what they need... Even with a change of leader the ukiptories couldn't deliver because with the ERG running the party they have no chance of getting anything but a Brexiteer as leader. Johnson has destroyed the tories.

We can't really go back, but close and sensible co-operation with trading etc would make sense for everyone.

The Tories will never achieve this, as they always confect a phoney "war" with the EU, (them against us scenario). but Labour probably could.

Johnson was never a genuine Brexiteer, it was just a career move, but the whole thing has ended up a total mess, pleasing no one.?

I don't think Starmer is trying to appeal to both sides of the trans debate, I think he is trying to appeal to the sensible middle.

I had a break from discussing trans issues and coming back I was once again shocked at the propaganda, the discussion techniques designed to frustrate, twist, shut down and ride roughshod over any kind of support towards trans people.

I hope we have time for more people to wake up to that before the next general election and consider whether this is actually a political issue at all.

Starmer is legally correct, some trans men have a vagina. I don’t get the impression he’s trying to ‘appeal’ to both sides of the trans debate. Rather, he’s trying to avoid being dragged down a rabbit hole.
His history on women’s issues, as well as his personal life suggest he’s a decent, trustworthy man who has some ethics , unlike Johnson. The Labour front bench has excellent women and men like Wes Streeting. How anyone ‘on the left’ can consider not voting Labour to keep the tories out is beyond my understanding.
Andy Burnham us our mayor. He stood for the Labour leadership twice, unsuccessfully. The left didn’t like him

Need to add, I do like Andy B

varian

It looks like Starmer has sold out - thereby losing the support of all the voters that thought he was an honest politician.

What a missed opportunity for him to speak the truth about brexit and stand up for what is right and what would be best for our country.

He is not the man or the leader I hoped he was.

I don't feel he has sold out at all. But then, I am not a died-in-the-wool Liberal.

I think he has a plan to make things work. Which is good. The current government doesn't; very little is working at the moment.

Do you know what the EU will look like in 10 years? That is about the time it would take us to rejoin, according to those who know about these things. Starmer does not insult the countries in Europe in the way Johnson does. He has a tempered and diplomatic style. I imagine that the EU are well aware that he wants a working relationship with them where trade is concerned, not to use them as a mall-constructed first step towards being "King of the World".

I think this is a wise move. There will be far more voters who are happy to make a trade agreement with the continent work. I get the impression that there are far fewer who are as convinced about a political agreement. You may think they are wrong but that will not change what they think.

In the next election, the LDs cannot win outright. They could, if the LP got into power, influence the policies of the next government, which could be a minority Labour one. That influence could be far more useful to the Liberals than the coalition with the Tories which damaged them for years. They could grow and build and, the greatest hope of many, get PR for the voters.

Just vote Labour... this seems the only point of contention that is cropping up and realistically, I'd rather he knew what a democracy is than what a woman is

Agree VS???

Starmer speech yesterday was about In 2022, Britain is stuck.

Stuck with an economy where wages have flatlined and household bills are going through the roof.

Stuck with broken public services that no longer work for those that they serve.

Stuck in queues for passports or driving licences.

Stuck waiting for delayed trains and buses.

Stuck on hold as we try to get a doctor’s appointment.

Britain is also stuck with a government that has no plan.

He later went on to say:

Under Labour, Britain will not go back into the EU.

We will not be joining the single market or the customs union.

Now, I know some people don’t want to hear that, but it is my job to be frank and to be honest – and you will always get that with me.

The reason I say this is simple.

Nothing about revisiting those rows will help stimulate growth or bring down food prices or help British business thrive in the modern world.

It would simply be a recipe for more division, it would distract us from taking on the challenges facing people and it would ensure Britain remained stuck for another decade.

You can read the full speech, with the steps to sorting out the mess here.

Thank you DaisyAnne

Iam64

Starmer is legally correct, some trans men have a vagina. I don’t get the impression he’s trying to ‘appeal’ to both sides of the trans debate. Rather, he’s trying to avoid being dragged down a rabbit hole.
His history on women’s issues, as well as his personal life suggest he’s a decent, trustworthy man who has some ethics , unlike Johnson. The Labour front bench has excellent women and men like Wes Streeting. How anyone ‘on the left’ can consider not voting Labour to keep the tories out is beyond my understanding.
Andy Burnham us our mayor. He stood for the Labour leadership twice, unsuccessfully. The left didn’t like him

I agree with you. I think Starmer does know (obviously) that biological sex cannot be changed, and adding bits or removing bits of bodies doesn't and cannot change this.

I don't blame him for not saying to get dragged down the fantasy rabbit hole, but he does need to be clearer.

I like Wes Streeting and Andy Burnham. Both, like Starmer, seem to be decent men.?

His plan to make Brexit work comprises:

Sort out the Northern Ireland Protocol
Tear down unnecessary trade barriers
Support the world's leading services and scientists
Keep Britain safe
Invest in Britain.

It is easy to prefer those to investment in the super-wealthy so that those running government may gain.

Keir Starmer is honouring the result of a democratic vote to leave the European Union, for which I respect him.

Keir is being pragmatic - there are still plenty of people who believe Brexit was right, although I suspect many of them disagree with the deal that was brokered after the referendum vote.

We all know that he would have wanted the vote to go the other way, but he recognises that at this moment rejoining is not an option.

Starmer also wants to recapture the traditional Labour voters who voted for Brexit and the conservatives - the so called red wall.

I was a remainer but as far as I am concerned KS is making a pragmatic decision, we are out of Europe and most unlikely to ever again be a member. Should we wish to rejoin we would be forced to accept the Euro and I can't help thinking that with inflation and a possible Europe wide recession threatening, we are better having control over our own currency. We need to work with the rest of Europe to make the best we can out of this sorry mess, so I'm totally with KS on this. The LP is it's own worst enemy because there is still too much reliance on the Trade Union movement. The percentage of workers in a trade union continues to drop, year by year (slight rise during the pandemic!) that percentage is largely propped up by the public sector. I just wish the LP would stop it's internal wars and focus on getting into government and I think that is what KS is trying to do. Do we really want more years of BJ and his like???

The Labour party doesn't know who it represents anymore .In Scotland Anas Sarwar has siad he wont have a coalition with the SNP even if that means labour wont get power in the next GE ....but he's in coalitions with tories across Scotland in councils ! They have joined with the tories and in one case have put a tory woman, who was expelled from a teaching authority, in charge of Education in th e area ?

So in Scotland vote Labour get tory ? I'm not sure that will win them votes ,they have only ONE MP at Westminster at present their worst result since the 1930's .
They may lose him next time around

paddyann54

The Labour party doesn't know who it represents anymore .In Scotland Anas Sarwar has siad he wont have a coalition with the SNP even if that means labour wont get power in the next GE ....but he's in coalitions with tories across Scotland in councils ! They have joined with the tories and in one case have put a tory woman, who was expelled from a teaching authority, in charge of Education in th e area ?

So in Scotland vote Labour get tory ? I'm not sure that will win them votes ,they have only ONE MP at Westminster at present their worst result since the 1930's .
They may lose him next time around

That’s not what the polls are saying though paddyann54 is it, they have Labour taking seats from Conservatives, and Anas Sarwar as more popular with voters than Nicola Sturgeon. Do you think they are wrong?

Thank you for your 9.19 post DaisyAnne.

Keir Starmer sums up exactly how I feel.
No solution or party will be perfect, but we are in a tremendous mess here and only getting rid of the current PM and party will allow us to stop digging and start to put things right.

I hope to vote Labour, but I will vote for whoever is most likely to unseat the Tories - likely LibDem in my ward.

eazybee

Keir Starmer is honouring the result of a democratic vote to leave the European Union, for which I respect him.

I fought long and hard for a peoples vote. Joined the LibDems, campaigned for them. The result was an overwhelming vote (in England at least) to ‘get brexit done’. Which has resulted in a form of dictatorship in this country. We can’t just overturn brexit without a vote on it, that would be behaving as badly as the current government. They must be gleeful about how divided the Labour Party is on so many subjects. Let’s get a Labour/LibDem coalition in power and turn this country into the sort of country that many of us want to live in but no longer recognise as such. I am terrified that this desire for the Labour Party to be 100% the party that people personally want will result in a Conservative government in perpetuity. If that happens I’m done with politics. I know people will say that if Keir stands for rejoining the EU that will be be the same as the peoples vote but it won’t work because Labour will lose the next election. Unless Johnson doesn’t have a snap election and, by the time we do have one it will be even more apparent what a disaster brexit has been.

paddyann54

The Labour party doesn't know who it represents anymore .In Scotland Anas Sarwar has siad he wont have a coalition with the SNP even if that means labour wont get power in the next GE ....but he's in coalitions with tories across Scotland in councils ! They have joined with the tories and in one case have put a tory woman, who was expelled from a teaching authority, in charge of Education in th e area ?

So in Scotland vote Labour get tory ? I'm not sure that will win them votes ,they have only ONE MP at Westminster at present their worst result since the 1930's .
They may lose him next time around

KS more Tory than labour. He is a liar deceitful gone back on all pledges and polices. Very authoritarian, promised unity

Much as I would love for Brexit not to have happened, I can't see the point of KS wanting to fight that battle again. Apart from anything else it would detract from the more important ones that we really need to be addressing.

Yes, I think tactical voting, at the next election, is the way to go.