Why do people believe lies?

WWM1 you are delving into a deep, complex and widely studied area. All of us, including you and me, are capable of, and probably do implicitly and have good reason to believe something, that most people consider totally past belief.

That is why I am careful about what I condemn. I am very conscious that I have perfectly reasonable rational, solidly based beliefs that other people find loopy.

I also know that the reasons, I, or anyone else think like that is very complex and not even begun to be explained by the, with respect, fairly simple and obvious solutions you offer.

People are invested in lies that support their own beliefs...

People will also tell lies of their own to strengthen and spread their own beliefs.

I'm not sure they always know it to be a lie because in their heads that particular scenario is a real possibility but their own ignorance or lack of education means they are unaware of the real proven facts.

Proven facts take time and research, lies take a moments thought into a theoretical scenario.

Remember the saying " A lie will run around the world before the truth has got its boots on"

An interesting thought.
These people do lie convincingly don't they? I wonder if it starts in infancy? Most young children will lie to try to avoid punishment, like the well known poster of the child saying No, she didn't eat the chocolate, when it's smeared all over her face. Toddlers are very poor liars so they quickly learn it's not a good idea and stop trying, that goes for most of us.
Others, perhaps like Trump and Johnson, get away with it and go on to become very good at it so consequently everyone believes them, apart from a few who have better 'liar radar' than us.
Just a thought.

People like it when their beliefs are re inforced. It occurs on both the left and right of politics.

If people have got it wrong then it’s a big ask for some to admit they got it wrong so they cling on and cling on to the full on belief that they are right and believe rhat through and through the more they believe it the more entrenched the belief becomes

Your right exdancer if it’s been colluded with as a child and never challenged it will become second nature to them

Galaxy

People like it when their beliefs are re inforced. It occurs on both the left and right of politics.

I agree, but I think it’s more than just that. When faced with very clear evidence that challenges their beliefs, many people figuratively put their fingers in their ears because facing the truth about something you have invested very heavily in challenges your own sense of self, and makes you feel ignorant and foolish. Not everybody can cope with the uphill journey of re-evaluating themselves.

I knew someone who was a fantasist. Even though we knew she was lying because she believed what she was saying it was very hard to not believe her. And I think we’ve all been conned by someone at one time or another and then felt so embarrassed by it we keep it to ourselves. I’ve just listened to the latest In Our Time on BBC Sounds. It’s about John Bull. When it talked about politics in ( I think) 1688 it didn’t seem very dissimilar to politics now.

In the case of anti vaxxers, Covid deniers, moon landing deniers, flat earthers and similar, they like the idea that they have revealed a great secret that other people are too stupid to grasp.

Casdon

Galaxy

People like it when their beliefs are re inforced. It occurs on both the left and right of politics.

I agree, but I think it’s more than just that. When faced with very clear evidence that challenges their beliefs, many people figuratively put their fingers in their ears because facing the truth about something you have invested very heavily in challenges your own sense of self, and makes you feel ignorant and foolish. Not everybody can cope with the uphill journey of re-evaluating themselves.

Yes it is more than beliefs being reinforced.

It is when we are faced with what is irrefutable - the earth is round not flat- but continue to believe the lie even though we have zero evidence to back up our position.

That is what I cannot explain, apart from that it may be too painful to face the fact that what we believe Has zero basis in fact, so we continue to believe a lie.

It is nice and easy to see all these people as flat earthers, anti-vaxxers etc etc. But all ofnus have this programmed into us and will have our own areas of resolute refusal to disbelief.

The parent that cannot accept that their 'loving gentle, little boy' is actually a nasty little bully.

We should not condemn others and look for easy peasy, slightly, not too insulting reasons for thinking someone is stupid to believe what they do. Unless we confront our own unreasonable beliefs. And do not kid yourself, we all have them.

What about religion? Millions of people believe in the existence of God and nothing a rational person can say will make them change their minds.

I do not justify trumpers and the like - the earth is NOT flat!

How many of us hold believes that defy logic?
UFOs, ghosts, reincarnation
I know these believes are not harmful or deny human rights

I believe people believe lies that are denied by proved facts and logic because it fits their mentality

M0nica

It is nice and easy to see all these people as flat earthers, anti-vaxxers etc etc. But all ofnus have this programmed into us and will have our own areas of resolute refusal to disbelief.

The parent that cannot accept that their 'loving gentle, little boy' is actually a nasty little bully.

We should not condemn others and look for easy peasy, slightly, not too insulting reasons for thinking someone is stupid to believe what they do. Unless we confront our own unreasonable beliefs. And do not kid yourself, we all have them.

Are you trying to shut this down? Because if not, perhaps you could replace my “easy peasy” explanation with one that is more profound?

I would be happy to read it as my OP makes clear that I can’t understand why this phenomena happens.

No, I am not trying to shut this down, but the literature on this subject is extensive and complex and the understanding and motivation is far more complex than you are suggesting and I cannot fully master the subject to even begin to fully explain it.

There is also an awful lot of 'holier(better) than thou' about this discussion.

I think it can only be fully discussed, if we can honestly admit that all of us have beliefs that are impervious to reason and delve into the subject in a deeper, humbler and more thoughtful mammer.

M0nica

No, I am not trying to shut this down, but the literature on this subject is extensive and complex and the understanding and motivation is far more complex than you are suggesting and I cannot fully master the subject to even begin to fully explain it.

There is also an awful lot of 'holier(better) than thou' about this discussion.

I think it can only be fully discussed, if we can honestly admit that all of us have beliefs that are impervious to reason and delve into the subject in a deeper, humbler and more thoughtful mammer.

You are attempting to take the moral high ground, and there’s no need to do that. A lot of us are aware of the fact that there is plenty of research into this area Monica. That doesn’t mean it’s not a subject worth discussing, or that those who are doing so are not fully aware of their own fallibility regarding their belief systems or are discussing it in a condescending way. Why not just tell us what you believe yourself?

I completely agree Monica
It’s a very complex subject that needs careful handling.
On a social media site it appears to be a rather contentious comment as it mentions posters on GN, as if wanting others to agree that posters are wrong and that they believe out and out lies. I haven’t seen any evidence of this so far.
As other posters mention, there are many beliefs such as ghosts, reincarnation, even religion in various forms that humans implicitly believe.

I sort of agree with Monica, I think for example Bidens administration has made some mistakes but it's almost impossible to discuss this because the narrative is Trump = bad, Biden =good, no one is immune to believing things they want to believe.

Honeysuckleberries I believe in God you don’t, so I am
irrational and you are rational, how interesting

Yes, I’m sure every one of us has a belief that is very hard to justify, but why?

What I do think is that The Enlightenment tried to (and did to a large extent) base belief on reason and fact. That was 200+ years ago and yet some unreasonable beliefs remain so entrenched that we hardly appear to have moved on at all.

No, I am not trying to take the high moral ground, in fact I am trying to avoid it as so often the high moral ground is occupied by those who know very little about a subject and are devoid of insight.

Galaxy

I sort of agree with Monica, I think for example Bidens administration has made some mistakes but it's almost impossible to discuss this because the narrative is Trump = bad, Biden =good, no one is immune to believing things they want to believe.

No I don’t think that is right, and it isn’t really what I’m talking about.

I’m not talking about value judgements but about beliefs that are not based on evidence.

M0nica

No, I am not trying to take the high moral ground, in fact I am trying to avoid it as so often the high moral ground is occupied by those who know very little about a subject and are devoid of insight.

Then why not tell us what you believe Monica? Some of us do know something about this, but not as much as you do, so we’d value your insight.

Yes it is a thought provoking subject.
I have always been a fan of Michael Jackson, his music, his dancing , loved watching him. However, no matter what the
evidence is against him I find it sooooo hard to believe any
of it. Just don't want to and turn away from it.

I've been watching a programme called "love or money" where people are scammed online with fake profiles of would be suitors, and often lose thousands of pounds with their lies and promises.

They never seem to see what's going on.

They never seem to see the obvious, so I suppose if you're a good con artist, which Johnson was, you can fool people.

Shame really.