What, if anything, do Conservatives now believe in?

BlueBelle

In answer to your title ….feathering their own nests

Absolutely true.
Note how many of all these candidates are calling for a return to the low tax conservatism. Yep, not low tax for the workers, but low tax for corporations. Ensure the bosses can make even more profit.
Of course a low tax economy ALSO means low social services = even less money for NHS, Education, Police, etc etc.

Anyone seen Professor Richard Murphy’s explanation as to how the economy operates?

He uses a simple formula-

GDP (a country’s income) = consumption (what we spend as private individuals) + government consumption ( what the government spends on public services etc + investment into the economy ( capital input leads to economic growth and higher employment) + or - net exports ( export-import).

So what Murphy is arguing is that it is making no sense if we want to grow our economy to reduce government spending (consumption).

Government spending supplies us with all the services we need like health, education, defence, etc. The money does not disappear down a black hole as the Tories like to suggest, but these services add to our income.

So the Tory candidates who are arguing for less government spending seem muddled. If they do so, the first thing that they will do is to reduce our GDP.

What does a 20% cut in public services mean? Well, first it will mean, fewer, police, fewer teachers, nurses, doctors and a smaller NHS.

So not only will we lose what these people add to the economy, we will lose what they spend as well. Even if they find another job, it tends to be less well paid because they are trained to do the job they are doing and not others, so they will consume less.

That is a bit from his article. If anyone can do a link I’d be grateful

I would like to hear from some Tory voters (and if possible, party members) because, of course, all the current rhetoric from the candidates is designed to appeal to them.

Once, you’d have had to look to the very right of the party to find approval for things like the Rwanda deportation policy, being content to see children live in poverty to cut taxes for the richest, privatising health care, and unchecked capitalism. Now it appears the parliamentary party believe the majority of ordinary Tory members support these positions.

It may be so, but then I wonder how such a narrow and divisive platform will appeal to the wider electorate.

One of my sons (a remainer) and one of my daughters-in-law (a leave voter) are - or rather, have been - Tory voters, but are unlikely to be so if the party doesn’t change direction.

They seem to have run out of ideas, hence the endless repetition of "tax cuts" with no ideas about how to pay for them and what effect that would have on our underfunded public services. We need a general election sooner rather than later, IMO.

It's funny isn't it? The assertions made in the past have been that the Conservatives were a safe pair of hands compared with Labour. But successive PMs seem to have been determined to prove what a falsehood that is, building up to the climax of Boris. Now the candidates for leadership seem to be varying degrees of inadequate and policies a thing of the past. You couldn't make it up!

It seems that the main reason for choosing the new leader is whether he/she was in favour of Brexit. What that has to do with anything now that Brexit has happened is neither here nor there. I think that everybody (even though some may not like it) accepts that we cannot rejoin the EU.

Second reason - cut taxes - for big business according to Hunt.

No mention of funding for the NHS, schools, social care.

Kandinsky

So what are your thoughts on Macron?

Okay. I’ll answer my own question as nobody else seems able to.

I’m glad Macron & other EU leaders have been exposed as greedy shysters.
I wonder what other dodgy dealings they’re involved in?

There. Question answered.
Have a nice day ?

What does this have to do with Conservative beliefs? At the moment we are engaged with something much more serious - the fate of our own country.

Kandinsky

I’m not a conservative - I voted for brexit so therefore voted for Boris to ‘get Brexit done’

I have voted Labour in the past.

But I would like to hear some thoughts on Macron & Uber. Not that he’s the only EU leader guilty.
What are your thoughts?
I’m not expecting much as this news item will be conveniently ignored by most on this board.
Doesn’t fit the script.

If you're going to bring France into the mix, why not the other countries? Such as the Netherlands? And please don't forget the involvement of Osborne, Hancock, Gove, Javid, Vaisey and Patel.

Here's the link:

www.theguardian.com/news/2022/jul/11/osborne-hancock-tory-ministers-did-not-declare-secret-uber-meetings-leak-reveals

Whitewavemark2

Hunt is prioritising bringing back fox hunting.

What planet do these people live on?

Good grief. Unbelievable!

Hunt is prioritising bringing back fox hunting.

What planet do these people live on?

The current Conservatives seem to believe that their staying in power at all cost is all that matters, that the good of the country and its 'ordinary' people barely comes into the equation.

They appear to believe that honesty, decency and integrity are nothing more than vague ambitions to be paid lip service to every now and then.

They appear to believe that we, the general public, are fools, to be kept in our place, to be exploited and to be promised that a few crumbs will be thrown our way at some unspecific time in the future if we vote for them when there's an election looming - promises that time after time fail to materialise.

They appear to believe that they can only hang on to power by bombarding the general public with anti-opposition propoganda.
It speaks volumes about how little the Conservatives really have to offer now, that unfounded whataboutery is their go-to weapon of choice

I think they must be interested in lower taxation based on what most of potential candidates have said.
I would like to know how they propose to unite the country. It’s been a difficult time for us all in recent years.

Kandinsky

I’m not a conservative - I voted for brexit so therefore voted for Boris to ‘get Brexit done’

I have voted Labour in the past.

But I would like to hear some thoughts on Macron & Uber. Not that he’s the only EU leader guilty.
What are your thoughts?
I’m not expecting much as this news item will be conveniently ignored by most on this board.
Doesn’t fit the script.

It isn’t what this thread is about.

I’m sure lots of people have lots of things to say about UBER, but you need to start a proper thread, and not get peeved if no one is taking up your post about Uber.

Kandinsky

*Hilarious. How to avoid a question, throw in the EU or even better, France*

And there we have it.
Perfect example

This is not relevant to the original post.

So what are your thoughts on Macron?

Okay. I’ll answer my own question as nobody else seems able to.

I’m glad Macron & other EU leaders have been exposed as greedy shysters.
I wonder what other dodgy dealings they’re involved in?

There. Question answered.
Have a nice day ?

I have been reading the promises being put out by the hopeful candidates.
They don’t seem to be saying anything about the crises in the cost of living or the NHS

Yes, it's glaringly absent isn't it? They've learnt nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Kandinsky

I’m not a conservative - I voted for brexit so therefore voted for Boris to ‘get Brexit done’

I have voted Labour in the past.

But I would like to hear some thoughts on Macron & Uber. Not that he’s the only EU leader guilty.
What are your thoughts?
I’m not expecting much as this news item will be conveniently ignored by most on this board.
Doesn’t fit the script.

It’s on the news that UK ministers were doing the same regarding Uber Kandinsky so wouldn’t criticising Macron be the pot calling the kettle black? Our kettle is quite black enough already.

They are divided and in disarray. They were never united under Johnson anyway. Be interesting to see which contender wins. They are busy fighting each other at present and the media is helping them dig up mud to sling at each other.

Hilarious. How to avoid a question, throw in the EU or even better, France

And there we have it.
Perfect example

I’m not a conservative - I voted for brexit so therefore voted for Boris to ‘get Brexit done’

I have voted Labour in the past.

But I would like to hear some thoughts on Macron & Uber. Not that he’s the only EU leader guilty.
What are your thoughts?
I’m not expecting much as this news item will be conveniently ignored by most on this board.
Doesn’t fit the script.

Kandinsky

*In answer to your title ….feathering their own nests*

Same as most other politicians - liberals included.
Have you seen the news about Macron & Uber?

Hilarious. How to avoid a question, throw in the EU or even better, France

Being "anti-woke".

Oh yes - and social care.

LA-run residential homes have vanished - all we are left with are privately-run homes who are there to make a profit. Many are on their knees because they struggle to survive on the measly fees that the LAs pay per resident, because the government provides insufficient funds. Care at home is provided by a hotch-potch of private agencies. Monitoring the standards of homes and agencies is a massive challenge - how can you close a poorly performing agency or home when there is nowhere else for residents to go? Are they parcels to be shunted around?

I was in SS adult services pre-privatisation and then I knew the homes and knew the home help services and knew that they were properly set-up, supported and monitored. What a mess it became and all in the name of profit.

Capitalism, privatisation, competition, profit: hence the collapse of so many public services, since they do not understand the word "service" or co-operation.

Education: instead of being a service, it has become an opportunity for those who know dot all about education to feather their nests by becoming chief execs of academy trusts, which top slice the money due to schools to perform their wholly unnecessary "management" functions. And now an element of compulsion is being introduced to try and have all schools as academies and in multi-academy trusts by 2030.

Health: "outsourcing" of functions to private companies has resulted in fragmentation and loss of coherence and commitment. The companies who take on the various contracts are simply there for profits and not to serve. There is is, that word serve again.

I could go on, but you get the gist.

Whatever these candidates spiel off to us, these are the basic tenets that we are having to live with. Sadly many people who vote Tory have failed to make these connections.

Kandinsky

*In answer to your title ….feathering their own nests*

Same as most other politicians - liberals included.
Have you seen the news about Macron & Uber?

You're a conservative, aren't you, Kandinsky?

How about telling us what you believe in rather than trying to deflect with a bit of whataboutery.

It's disappointing that people have come out with generalisations about the upper echelons of the party.

I'd be very interested to know what 'ordinary' people believe in that leads them to vote conservative.