What, if anything, do Conservatives now believe in?

MayBee70

They are systematically destroying everything I know and love about my country. I don’t understand why people are allowing it to happen.

We are allowing it to happen because we do not live in a democracy.

These corrupt incompetent chancers were elected by a minority and got an 80 seat majority in the HOC.

We must have electoral reform. Change our voting system to PR and actually become a democracy.

MayBee70

They are systematically destroying everything I know and love about my country. I don’t understand why people are allowing it to happen.

Weird, isn't it? You will be the one who is accused of not loving your country because you criticise the way it's being "managed". I love my country too, which is why I want the best for as many of its inhabitants as possible.

They are systematically destroying everything I know and love about my country. I don’t understand why people are allowing it to happen.

The Tories as presently constituted are a serious danger to public well-being. I see no reason, given their ignoring the NHS crisis, the farmers' and fishermens' problems, the cost of living for ordinary folk, energy costs (far higher than in France and Germany), the underinvestment by the water monopolies, lack of pay rises in essential services and the fraudulent losses during the pandemic, not to assume they don't care about ordinary people. They simply love power, act on 'me first' and keep the poor poor.

Combine that with the anti-woke agenda, laws against protesting loudly and the undermining of the judiciary and it's not difficult to see that only people with approved views will have freedom.

I agree with you DaisyAnne. There's a difference between "freedom to" and "freedom from". Should people have freedom to say and do what they want, if it means others don't have freedom from harrassment and/or abuse?

This government is taking away our right to protest. I don’t think that’s giving us freedom. Can anyone tell me of any restrictions that were put on our lives during the last Labour government?

GrannyRose15

Freedom of the individual
Freedom to make something of yourself.
Low tax
Small state.
Allowing people to live their own lives without interference.
Free speech - even when you don't agree with me.
Looking after one's own family.
Valuing the best of our traditions.
Evolutionary change if this is necessary rather than revolutionary change
Public service.

All political involvement is the triumph of hope over experience to some degree but it shouldn't stop us believing in a better future even if we can never vote for everything we would like. It's often the case of voting for the least bad fit.

And contrary to what most people on here seem to think most Conservatives do care about other people and the welfare of the nation as a whole.

Your list seems to have no balance GrannyRose. When all you want is freedom, we might well repeat Thatcher's mantra of "no such thing as society". I have a feeling you fit in well with the New Conservatives.

You seem to see no need to protect others from the licence for each individual to do and be precisely what they want. Does each person have to fight everyone else for these freedoms? Do you expect the state to stand back and do nothing while this happens?

I think you have summed up the Conservative way of thinking extremely well, sadly.

Whitewavemark2

Tbh the Tory party is lurching even further to the right since Johnson was pushed out.

Most Tory voters would not really recognise what the Tory party has become.

I agree with this.

Thanks Growstuff. Interesting.

Sorry, GrannyRose, but anybody interested in the issues on your list shouldn't be voting for the current Conservative party.

Dinahmo

GrannyRose15 How do you equate public service with low tax and a small state? Do you mean volunteering for charities etc?

Exactly! Public services cost money.

Conservatives only believe in free speech, if it's "anti-woke" and done quietly.

Spot on Luckygirl3 - I'm totally bewildered by those who continue to vote for more of the same (like turkeys voting for Christmas).

Thanks Growstuff for an excellent read.

GrannyRose15 How do you equate public service with low tax and a small state? Do you mean volunteering for charities etc?

Thanks, growstuff for posting a very interesting and thoughtful article.

GrannyRose15

Freedom of the individual
Freedom to make something of yourself.
Low tax
Small state.
Allowing people to live their own lives without interference.
Free speech - even when you don't agree with me.
Looking after one's own family.
Valuing the best of our traditions.
Evolutionary change if this is necessary rather than revolutionary change
Public service.

All political involvement is the triumph of hope over experience to some degree but it shouldn't stop us believing in a better future even if we can never vote for everything we would like. It's often the case of voting for the least bad fit.

And contrary to what most people on here seem to think most Conservatives do care about other people and the welfare of the nation as a whole.

And there used to be Conservative MP’s that wanted that, too. But Johnson got rid of them and surrounded himself with people whose sole aim was to keep him in power. Until the ERG decided he wouldn’t win them another election and got rid of him.

I know some people don't read links, so I've copied an pasted this article from The Spectator (hardly left-wing) in full:

John Oxley

The crisis at the heart of the Conservative party

The Tories struggle to decide what they want to do and are unable to implement the few ideas they have

9 August 2022, 3:30pm

It is always interesting to read the Wikipedia pages of plane crashes. Thanks to the data recovered from black boxes, especially the cockpit voice recordings, the last moments of flights can be recreated with vivid accuracy. The most interesting are those caused largely by human error.

In those final fateful moments, you can observe highly intelligent, highly trained professionals making error after error, gradually dooming them and their passengers. Despite the ringing alarms of the onboard systems, they lose sight of what they are doing or how to avoid the impending doom. They pull the joystick instead of releasing it, they shut down the working engine instead of the failing one, or sometimes the two pilots pull in different directions, cancelling each other out. Eventually, they hit the Point of No Return and, shortly after, the ground.

The current Conservative leadership election has a similar atmosphere. Every day in this interminably long contest, the final two candidates fire out press releases and half-formed policy proposals, only to wind them back in – flailing around the controls they want to wield in a month’s time. Meanwhile, the country heads towards crisis.

Neither Rishi Sunak nor Liz Truss appears to recognise or acknowledge the looming problems Britain faces, both in the short and the long term. Analysts predict that this winter the energy price cap will hit £4,400. For the average household, this will represent 14 per cent of their post-tax income. As an isolated threat, that would mean deep discomfort for many households. Combined with other price rises and increasing interest rates, it will mean destitution. Government will have to act to prevent this, yet everything promised so far is lacklustre.

The grants already in place will cover less than 10 per cent of the cap limit. Abolishing VAT on domestic fuel would knock another 200 quid or so off, while removing the green levy would drop it by £155. It’s piecemeal help in the face of a massive problem and failing to address this now will only mean more hurried help when the bills start dropping on doorsteps.

This might be forgivable if that were the only issue where the candidates seemed oblivious. But everywhere you look, the country faces massive challenges that the governing party has no answer to. Many have written at length about the Tory failure to tackle the housing crisis. I won’t repeat their arguments, save to say that throughout the leadership contest there has been no serious attempt to look at housing. Rishi Sunak has swung behind defending the greenbelt, whilst Liz Truss has prevaricated and developed an obsession with Whitehall’s current ‘Soviet style’ housing targets. But as anyone who has managed key performance indicators will tell you, if there is no target for something, the target is zero.

Beyond this, Britain looks forward to running out of water and electricity. Infrastructure projects that could have alleviated these problems have been bandied around and frustrated for decades, and little can be done to turn this around on short notice. Yet equally, there is limited planning now for the threats in future decades. They say the best time to plant a tree was ten years ago, and the second-best time is today. In Britain, the second-best time to begin is after three preliminary reports, two judicial reviews and a general election. The best time is never.

Even in foreign and military policy, the natural home of the Conservative politician, things look bleak. Whilst the country has performed well in arming Ukraine, its own defence commitments have been mealy mouthed. Promised spending rises have been undermined by inflation and clever accounting, while procurement remains scandalously wasteful – the UK eliminates its own tanks more efficiently than its Javelin missiles deal with Russian ones. In a fit of beautiful bureaucracy, a chunk of our defence spending goes on consultants planning the next round of cuts and another chunk on how to cope with the last ones.

In an uncertain world the Conservative party struggles to decide what it wants to do, and struggles to implement the few ideas it has

This isn’t, however, meant to be a mere catalogue of the UK’s woes. Instead, these issues are served up to highlight what is arguably the most pervasive and surprising problem the Tory party faces: that it doesn’t care about politics.

That is not to say that the party doesn’t care about winning elections. It remains ruthlessly committed to that and its record is clear. Even after the crashing scandals of the Johnson era, the incoming PM has a fighting chance of securing the next election, leaving the Tories in government for nearly 20 years. The problem is that the party no longer understands why or to what end they wield such power.

Many on the left would be shocked by how apolitical most of the Conservative party is. There is currently no theory in conservative politics. I suspect no more than a handful of Tory MPs have ever read Burke or Hayek, unless they cropped up on a PPE reading list. They will be far more familiar with Isabel Oakeshott than Michael.

Factionalism within the party is driven far more by aesthetics than by ideology. One (former) MP once told me that when he asked his association why they had picked him for a safe seat, he was told ‘It was the lovely way you spoke about your wife at the selection’. Many MPs come to parliament without any real belief other than a view that ‘good things are good, and we should do more of them, and bad things are bad’. I’ve met less than half a dozen mainstream Tories who could be classed as ideologues.

At its best, this makes the party flexible and pragmatic, able to pivot around the issues of the day. At its worst (and it really seems to be falling into the worst now) it becomes listless, incapable and slightly baffled by the power it holds. It’s the cat that has finally caught the laser pointer.

Rather than principles or goals, the Tory party today lives for day-to-day reactions to the things that catch its eye. Most MPs have no understanding of economics, but instead repeat half-remembered maxims about lower taxes (we are, it seems, forever to the right of the Laffer curve), whilst at the same time celebrating the latest boondoggle that happens to land in their constituency. In the same vein, you see the Tory MPs who have started to get their head around the housing crisis call for more housebuilding everywhere except where it threatens some historic carpark or ‘sacred’ waste site on their patch. They will tweet almost back-to-back about the unaffordability of homes and their objection to any new development.

This track record of the current government is testament to this. Despite coming to power with a majority of 80, as close to total control of the British state as you can have, the government has failed to push forward on any of its purported objectives. It is bizarre to see left wing commentators talk of the ‘rise of the far right’ or the democratic backsliding associated with post 2019 Conservatism, when those I know on the right laugh darkly at the impotence of the government.

A government which claimed to be hard-line on immigration did nothing to reduce it. A government that seeks to be tough on crime has seen petty crime become almost legal. A government that complains about ‘woke-culture’ has done nothing at a legislative level to prevent it.

The Tory party is not driven by some grand policy agenda, but simply grasping at shiny objects. It passes repetitive, unnecessary and ultimately inoffensive laws that criminalise things that are already illegal – like dog theft or ¬assaults on emergency workers. Or else spends its time complaining that the world, the civil service and the blob is against it. The party once sought to campaign in poetry and govern in prose, now it campaigns and governs in tweets.

Even on its beloved Brexit, the Conservative party tries to stoke an ongoing threat that it might be undone or revoked or strangled at birth rather than engage with the realities of leaving the EU. With the simple in and out completed, there is no clue whether Britain’s future is Singapore on Thames or shoring up the dying embers of Red Wall industries. Instead, it jumps to silly-season headlines on imperial measures and crowns on pint glasses.

There is ultimately an emptiness at the heart of the current Conservative party. Its politics and principles are skin deep and conflicted. It is apparent in almost everything it does, from Remainer Liz Truss becoming the ‘Brexit candidate’ for leadership to the pious Catholic Jacob Rees-Mogg defending the serial liar and philanderer Boris Johnson to the hilt, or the Tory MPs who claim to be cost conscious whilst vetoing the cheapest way to repair the Palace of Westminster because they like being surrounded by old oak and stone. Everything is an image; everything is a meme.

There is an almost complete absence of policy innovation. The party grasps around for yesterday’s answers to yesterday’s problems, copying the homework of Thatcher, a leader who has been out of power for 30 years and dead for ten. It’s why the party recycles so much from policy interns and fails to come up with anything equal to the challenges we face. It does not even propose simple answers for complex problems – just no answers beyond the triple lock and ever rising house prices.

It is not that the Conservative party is deliberately and mindfully pursuing ends inimical to British interests. Tory MPs do, mostly, want a prosperous and safe country. They’ve just lost any sense of what that means beyond platitudes, or how to engage with the challenges that stand in our way. The party would rather hide behind the curtain, pulling at levers that aren’t attached to anything.

I’m often amazed at the image the popular left has in this country of a scheming, conniving Conservative party, like the one it alleges is running down the NHS to sell it off to private interests. The reality is far scarier.

In a world where the British economy is stagnating and the population is ageing, there is no way to square the circle without raising taxes or reducing services. The Conservative party is afraid to do either, so lets the problem spiral. Those that do foresee the problems look to the magic cure of ‘efficiency savings’, promised in the same way I promise that next summer I will have a six pack: lacking both a concrete plan to do it, and the discipline to implement it.

Instead, all the party can do is say things that appeal to the voters who keep backing it – generally older, wealthier suburban dwellers. Nowhere is this more apparent than in the leadership contest. This weekend, Twitter was ablaze with shock when Rishi Sunak talked about cutting degrees that don't lead to good jobs. Many on the left took this as an attack on the university sector, or even part of a grand plan to exclude the working classes from the humanities.

In truth, it is neither. It is Sunak appealing to an electorate who came of age when 10 per cent of the population went to university and economic growth carried them to prosperity, who now see their grandchildren laden with debt, unable to buy a home. It’s the ‘common sense’ of the bloke at the end of the Conservative Club bar, nothing more than a trope. It’s not something that will ever seriously happen.

Liz Truss’s plan for every child with three As to be offered an Oxbridge interview is similar politicking. It pays no heed to (i) the burden this places on the university (ii) that for many reasons such a person might not want to go to Oxbridge or (iii) that the highest A-level grade has been A* since 2010. It ignores many of the challenges of widening access, and in particular how universities like LSE, UCL and Imperial, which have fewer admissions resources per student and make more paper-based decisions, can bias against poorer children.

There are of dozens of announcements like these from the candidates – the theme remains the same. Tory MPs and Tory leaders are saying what they think their voters want to hear. But there is no implementation, no plan for adverse consequences, and no underpinning logic or principle. They are throwing bricks through windows with no notes attached.

It is much like those panic filled cockpits. With an impending crisis, Tory leaders have lost sight of what levers they hold and what they can do. They’ve lost sight of the mission they need to fulfil as the altitude warnings flash. The Conservative party has fallen into a fundamental problem – it is unwilling and unable to address the needs of the day.

Many people reading this will disagree about what those solutions might look like. I am, after all, firmly rooted in the right of centre. But when I look at my own (nominal) party, it is hard not to feel disappointed at the lack of any action. From the housing crisis to the stagnating economy, to law and order, to the health service, there are solutions out there – yet the Conservative party has given up on seeking them, seduced instead by the 24 hour news cycle, the focus group and the Twitter grifters. Neither leadership candidate offers much hope. Sunak looks like he will run the country like a private equity project, cutting any expense he can and damn the consequences, whilst Truss will run it like a village fete, with boundless enthusiasm and harking back to the old hits.

Whoever wins in September, the party will be stuck. Even in power it remains incapable of generating and delivering credible policies, incapable of using its resources to tackle the challenges ahead. In an uncertain world it struggles to decide what it wants to do, and struggles to implement the few ideas it has. The party has become a machine for garnering headlines and votes but is now starting to stall. Insulated by a media which also focuses on the day-to-day rigmarole of politics as soap opera, our leaders are missing the signs of short- and long-term crisis which will soon hit. They are failing to adapt, failing to plan. The sirens are ringing, the ground is coming.

About sums it up GrannyRose15
And no I didn't vote for Brexit

Freedom of the individual
Freedom to make something of yourself.
Low tax
Small state.
Allowing people to live their own lives without interference.
Free speech - even when you don't agree with me.
Looking after one's own family.
Valuing the best of our traditions.
Evolutionary change if this is necessary rather than revolutionary change
Public service.

All political involvement is the triumph of hope over experience to some degree but it shouldn't stop us believing in a better future even if we can never vote for everything we would like. It's often the case of voting for the least bad fit.

And contrary to what most people on here seem to think most Conservatives do care about other people and the welfare of the nation as a whole.

Tbh the Tory party is lurching even further to the right since Johnson was pushed out.

Most Tory voters would not really recognise what the Tory party has become.

What I haven’t understood for a long time is that the Conservative party is ripping apart all the things about this country that I thought Conservative voters supported them for. They’ will even probably be responsible for the breaking up of the Union. It’s all about power and getting elected and they aren’t even trying to hide it any more. But what has really shocked me is realising that MP’s that I thought were decent eg Tugendhat, are all as bad as each other.

Yes, impressive post Luckygirl, thank you.

What do Conservatives believe in?

Firstly Staying in power at all costs.

Secondly and thirdly they believe that the naked emporer is wearing wonderful clothes.

Brexit is absolutely wonderful (in spite of all the evidence that it has been an unmitigated disaster) so any Conservative who ever dares to doubt how wonderful the brexit bonuses are should wash their mouth out with soap. Truss and Sunak are fighting about who is more brexity.

Going back to the triumphs of the good old days, Margaret Thatcher was the best ever PM (in spite of the chickens having come home to roost re selling off council houses while forbidding councils from replacing them and privitising the railways, utilities, probation service, prison service and going a long way to privitising the NHS). Sunak and Truss are both competing to see who is the best Thatcher tribute act.

That's it. They don';t actually believe in doing anything for the good of the country.