The Forde Report what should happen now?

Most people think public ownership of utilities rail water is the best way dont you

Anniebach

The far left wanted Corbyn’s ideals, the country didn’t

I don't think that's actually true, Ab. As I just said, surveys have shown that people mostly like 'left wing' policies, they just don't seem to trust Labour...

I think distribution is more of a problem than lack of growth, if the Labour party does not stand up for a more equal distribution of this country's wealth, who will?

I think though that MaisieD might well be correct in that they might understand about state spending but are too afraid to say so.

If he honestly believed the party needed to move to the right to win an election he could have said so, but then he wouldn't have won the leadership would he?

Well, there's the conundrum, isn't it?

The LP was never going to win an election with overtly left wing policies; the voting public is, for some obscure reason, scared of them (as noted,by, IIRC, Ilovecheese last week some time). I haven't the faintest idea 'why' they're scared of them, but for example, surveys have shown that people are supportive of 'left wing' policies but when told they are Labour policies they say that they won't vote Labour. It's baffling.

So, IMO, if Labour want to gain power they have to appear to be more centrist; it's pragmatic and realist. I think that Starmer is well aware of this and acts accordingly. If people think this is duplicitous that's unfortunate, but as someone else has pointed out on this thread, there are millions of voters out there with no fixed political ideas or even much political awareness. But Labour needs their votes to gain power. How else are they going to be able to implement their policies?

I have to say that I feel I can place more trust in a man who says he wants to see the country run properly than in any crowd pleasing populist.

The far left wanted Corbyn’s ideals, the country didn’t

The Forde report is also devastating about Corbyn’s inability to deal with the situation Grany, it got worse under his leadership, leaving one hell of a mess for Starmer to work through

In 2018 Corbyn had a report commissioned by Chakrabati
And Jenny Formby cleared backlog left deliberately by MC Nicol Antsemitism was politically used to undermine Corbyn as Forde Report states. Starmer should impliment changes. Starmer weaponised antisemitism against Corbyn we all know it's a scam. There was very little 00.1 when Starmer took over.

Casdon

Grany

Labour's Forde report is devastating on factional war against Corbyn

Peter Oborne

Keir Starmer should act on the findings but he has fashioned himself as the nemesis of the Labour left and not a statesman who can bring together all factions of his party

Rebecca Long-Bailey calls for Labour to drop cautious approach to economy
Former leadership contender wants manifesto to include state ownership and a living standards contract for citizens

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/24/rebecca-long-bailey-calls-for-labour-to-drop-cautious-approach-to-economy

The Forde report is also devastating about Corbyn’s inability to deal with the situation Grany, it got worse under his leadership, leaving one hell of a mess for Starmer to work through - whoops, you forgot to mention that bit.
The Forde report was published a week ago, there are no magic wands, and the answer is not just to give the left of the party what they want - that’s how we got here in the first place.

The left of the party have never demanded anything. They embraced Corbyn because his ideals were theirs. When Starmer stood for election they took him at his word and believed he would unite the party. Unfortunately all his actions have shown he has no intention of doing so. The question is if he can be so duplicitous about this how can he be trusted to do anything he says he will?
If he honestly believed the party needed to move to the right to win an election he could have said so, but then he wouldn't have won the leadership would he? So self interest is his primary aim.

Ilovecheese

Now Keir Starmer is talking about magic money trees. Says he is going to prioritise "growth".
Hardly inspiring is it.
I am trying, I really am, and then I see this sort of thing on the news.

You will only get 'growth' in the economy if you invest in the economy.

I don't know where you get the 'magic money tree' idea from, because I haven't seen or heard the Starmer statement you're referring to, but...

Thinking about what we do know about Labour's future plans, they have said they will invest £28billion a year in the 'green economy'. This may not be enough to achieve net zero, but at least it's a step in the right direction. And it will create opportunities for 'green' industries and mean job creation. There is masses to be done, what with retro fitting homes to be energy efficient and developing and expanding 'green' technology. Is this not 'growth'?

labour.org.uk/stronger-together/britain-2030/green-and-digital-future/

I do still contend that they are being held back by their ludicrous insistence that the country's books have to 'balance' and failure to understand that state spending is limited only by the resources available for the money to be spent on, but perhaps they'll work it out at some time. Or perhaps they even know, but don't want to give hostages to the right wing media and the tories. (The tories, BTW, have discovered the 'magic money tree' and used it relentlessly to the benefit of their friends, families and donors)

Grany

Labour's Forde report is devastating on factional war against Corbyn

Peter Oborne

Keir Starmer should act on the findings but he has fashioned himself as the nemesis of the Labour left and not a statesman who can bring together all factions of his party

Rebecca Long-Bailey calls for Labour to drop cautious approach to economy
Former leadership contender wants manifesto to include state ownership and a living standards contract for citizens

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/24/rebecca-long-bailey-calls-for-labour-to-drop-cautious-approach-to-economy

The Forde report is also devastating about Corbyn’s inability to deal with the situation Grany, it got worse under his leadership, leaving one hell of a mess for Starmer to work through - whoops, you forgot to mention that bit.
The Forde report was published a week ago, there are no magic wands, and the answer is not just to give the left of the party what they want - that’s how we got here in the first place.

Now Keir Starmer is talking about magic money trees. Says he is going to prioritise "growth".
Hardly inspiring is it.
I am trying, I really am, and then I see this sort of thing on the news.

Labour's Forde report is devastating on factional war against Corbyn

Peter Oborne

Keir Starmer should act on the findings but he has fashioned himself as the nemesis of the Labour left and not a statesman who can bring together all factions of his party

Rebecca Long-Bailey calls for Labour to drop cautious approach to economy
Former leadership contender wants manifesto to include state ownership and a living standards contract for citizens

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/24/rebecca-long-bailey-calls-for-labour-to-drop-cautious-approach-to-economy

thousands marched through London to demand:

? No new oil
? Tax big polluters and billionaires
?Energy for all
? Insulate our homes
? Cheap public transport

WeAllWantToJustStopOil.com

Lots of groups wanting change joined together.

It isn't a choice between communism and capitalism. It's having a mixed economy which provides essentials for working people at reasonable costs. Why should anyone make huge profits out of supplying essentials? There are companies making huge profits, paying huge salaries to executives but refusing wage rises to their ordinary workers who are struggling with rising costs. A decent place to live, healthcare, food, water and power should be available to everyone at a reasonable cost. Sadly one of the LP policies which might have helped so many -providing power from a non-profit making publicly owned power company- has already been dumped by Starmer.

Well, unless we become a communist state I don’t see how we can exist if we don’t work with private companies. Surely we can reach some sort of balance. Not all private companies treat their employees badly do they. But if they do we need to stop that. It doesn’t have to be either or does it?

MayBee70

Well, many people wouldn’t vote for Labour because they felt it was controlled by the unions and their leaders ( eg Len McCluskey) so where do they get their funding from ? I think private business realised long ago that Starmer was more on their side than f**k business Boris was. I can’t see a problem with that. There has to be a better balance and I think Keir is the man to find it.

Funny isn't it Unions which have at the heart the working people are seen as somehow evil but private companies intent on making more profits for their shareholders are considered suitable funders. Meantime profits go through the roof and workers struggle to keep up with rising prices. And having only political parties acting for private interests is seen as desirable. Extraordinary that some can't see the link between these things.

Wales again though Casdon I hope you are right that Keir Starmer will be more like Mark Drakeford in future.

The Forde report: my experience of Southside in 2017
After 27 months the much-delayed inquiry has arrived — having worked at the heart of the struggle between the Corbyn team and the permanent party staff, I know the grim picture it paints to be true, writes BEN SELLERS

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/forde-report-my-experience-southside-2017

Ilovecheese

Well Mick Lynch is perfectly correct isn't he.
I have just been looking at an extract from Winston Churchill's manifesto from 1945.
Sounded quite radical, talking about a mass house building programme and saying that while we have a shortage of housing we must have rent controls.
I think nowadays rent controls would be viewed as "hard left".

Again no though Ilovecheese Wales is looking to introduce rent controls and it’s not ‘hard left’ by any stretch.
www.nrla.org.uk/research/deep-insight/rent-controls-wales
I think there is a lot of wilful misinterpretation going on.

Well Mick Lynch is perfectly correct isn't he.
I have just been looking at an extract from Winston Churchill's manifesto from 1945.
Sounded quite radical, talking about a mass house building programme and saying that while we have a shortage of housing we must have rent controls.
I think nowadays rent controls would be viewed as "hard left".

The fantastic Mick Lynch "We've got more billionaires than ever... there's plenty of money in the economy, it's just in the hands of the wrong people"

I do agree with you, Grany. Rachel Reeves is very ignorant of how a domestic economy works.

(But even Corbyn couldn't bring himself to believe in any alternative model.)

But when practically the whole of the media and the voting public believe the 'Household economy guff' and will attack Labour for any hint of profligacy I can understand the caution.

Infuriating when the tories have spaffed £billions over the past 2 years without a murmur from the media.

Rachel Reeves, has given an interview to the Mirror she wants to offer less than the Tories’ already-insulting pay rise for the public sector.

No UBI

Then

"unless you grow the economy, it is not possible to improve living standards and have the money to invest in public services"

The key to improving living standards funding investment, is reduced corporate profiteering, proper taxation, as well as real economics,

instead of the household-budget guff used to con the public for more than a decade now – and people having more money in their pockets will grow the economy automatically.

Well, many people wouldn’t vote for Labour because they felt it was controlled by the unions and their leaders ( eg Len McCluskey) so where do they get their funding from ? I think private business realised long ago that Starmer was more on their side than f**k business Boris was. I can’t see a problem with that. There has to be a better balance and I think Keir is the man to find it.

MaizieD

Glorianny

MaizieD

Glorianny

Interesting though that Harold Wilson who could speak BBC English when he chose always used a Northern accent in his speeches.
I think that politics generally has taken a massive step to the right and what was centre left for Tony Blair is now seen as the loony left. I just wonder how far to the right we can go and if it will take people dying of cold and starvation before sensible policies which limit profits, pay reasonable wages and provide proper support for the weakest and poorest are re-introduced.

Can you say what your comments are based on? Labour publications or just 'feelings'?

Privatisation and profits mostly along with a real lack of commitment to the Trade Union movement, no policy to provide adequate social housing and regulate the private rental sector, along with no real commitment to keep the NHS a public service and reverse the privatisation already in place. Not to mention the growth of academies and other places of education which are of course intent on paying huge salaries to the top people and the lowest possible to the grass roots workers. (Can you see a theme here?)
Blair remember only just managed to get rid of Clause 4 in the face of much objection. Even mentioning public ownership now causes the leader to have apoplexy.

What I really meant was: 'What is the source of your comments?'

This was asked some time ago but I've just got back. So here goes. Starmer himself has said that the aim to take back ownership of the energy companies won't happen. The argument he uses is that it would cost too much but these are companies making huge profits which could pay their way so that's questionable. There's a rail strike going on an ideal time to criticise the rail companies and say the franchises will stop and we will have a joined up national rail system again. The silence is deafening. Meantime membership of the LP has fallen massively with approximately half the paying members it had in 2020, so funding is going to be a problem. Word is that Starmer is seeking money from private business to support the party. So what we will in fact have is two parties owned by private companies and no representation for the ordinary citizen. If you think about it ,it is what Starmer has been working towards since he became leader.

What I was impressed with Starmer was his strength of character.

Clearly there are pressures on him from all sides on various issues, like showing Labours hand in relation to policies, pressure from the discontented left of the party, and the knowledge that the media will drop on him from a great height if he gives them a chance etc., but he knows exactly what needs doing, has set an agenda and pathway and is forging ahead step by step.