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So the Final 2 - Liz and Rishi

(668 Posts)
Bea65 Wed 20-Jul-22 16:01:44

Well am not surprised.. Are you? Feel dismayed by the Cons and the awful skullduggery that has gone on..need a glass or 2..hmm

Farzanah Fri 29-Jul-22 19:54:58

Great guy ?
Like to see these two light weights up against him.

Katie59 Fri 29-Jul-22 19:48:09

Well unless things change we are going to have to live with Liz Truss the betting odds are 6/1 against Sunak.

volver Fri 29-Jul-22 19:44:27

Can we have this person in charge of the country please?

OK, there's the Brexit thing, but I'm sure we could come to a grown-up agreement.

twitter.com/LBC/status/1553055672950046722

Farzanah Fri 29-Jul-22 16:26:00

This is just mad and one of (many) things that concern me if this woman becomes PM.

Dinahmo Fri 29-Jul-22 16:03:10

If Truss becomes PM she intends to go to Russia and "take Putin out" whatever that means. Assassinate him perhaps? Her self belief is growing all the time.

Farzanah Thu 28-Jul-22 17:19:46

Thank you for posting to clarify what I was saying varian. It is clearly what has happened in this country since Johnson came to power, and so many seem unaware and accepting.
All the evidence is there without detailing it and I find it completely frustrating and depressing.

varian Thu 28-Jul-22 16:38:54

Farzanah

God help us if Truss matures into her role.
She’s bad enough in her present role where women’s rights are being eroded and many seem to not realise or not care enough.

The Overton window has shifted, and seemingly the British Public are prepared to tolerate, and even to encourage, what would have at one time considered extreme and even inhuman policies.

So true Farzanah

The concept of the Overton Window should be better understood.

Essentially it defines limits of what is currently considered politically acceptable. Ideas outside of the OW are currently considered extreme and totally unthinkable.

However that can be changed. It is done not by nudging the edges of the window one way or the other but by proposing something so extreme that what was previously just a bit beyond the limits of acceptability starts to appear moderate by comparison.

This short Youtube video, made in the USA during the Trump presidency , explains it well. Just skip the ad at the beginning.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-hzc6blGI

The parallel with the way the ERGs, aided and abetted by the billionaire proprietors of the right wing press, have shifted our Overton Window, is truly scary.

Wheniwasyourage Thu 28-Jul-22 15:59:23

Iam64

Callistemon - we could do a list of things Liz Truss needs to learn

One would be that the pussy bow is not a good look, and does not make her into Margaret Thatcher (which is possibly a good thing, even if MT was a LOT more intelligent than LT seems to be).

Iam64 Thu 28-Jul-22 14:04:52

Callistemon - we could do a list of things Liz Truss needs to learn

Callistemon21 Thu 28-Jul-22 14:03:26

I'm very impressed with Liz Truss. She was a bit dippy as Environment Secretary, but has matured and obtained more gravitas since becoming Foreign Secretary.

She does need to learn that the Balkans are a bit south of the Baltic States, though.

Dinahmo Thu 28-Jul-22 11:17:57

Headlines from the Guardian:

"Foreign Office under Liz Truss has failed to regain global footing, report finds

Institute for Government says morale low, expertise on Russia lacking, and merger with DfID has not worked"

Here's a link to the article which explains how badly she ran the FO.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/28/foreign-office-not-regained-global-footing-under-liz-truss-report-finds

Farzanah Thu 28-Jul-22 09:44:40

God help us if Truss matures into her role.
She’s bad enough in her present role where women’s rights are being eroded and many seem to not realise or not care enough.

The Overton window has shifted, and seemingly the British Public are prepared to tolerate, and even to encourage, what would have at one time considered extreme and even inhuman policies.

HousePlantQueen Wed 27-Jul-22 23:12:58

Truss will get the job because the ERG can manipulate her and their policies of low taxation and demonising illegal immigrants will appeal to the Conservative party members

LinFreed Wed 27-Jul-22 22:36:37

Thatcher grew into her role. She was never that steely to begin with but earned her spurs over time. I feel Truss has obtained much more gravitas since she has been FS. I found her a bit dippy before.

LinFreed Wed 27-Jul-22 22:33:14

I'm very impressed with Liz Truss. She was a bit dippy as Environment Secretary, but has matured and obtained more gravitas since becoming Foreign Secretary.

I have observed that leaders become gain greater leadership when they are actually in that role. It takes experience and time to become a credible PM.

As a side note, I am impressed with Kier for standing a stand against militancy in his front bench ranks. The Labour Party has to appeal across the piece in order to win the next election.

That's my personal opinion anyway.

Iam64 Wed 27-Jul-22 21:26:25

I’m beginning to believe the old grey men in suits in the shires want Truss because she will be easily manipulated and controlled

Dickens Wed 27-Jul-22 21:15:12

MaizieD

Bea65

Dickens you must have been a suffragette in another life..think we have a few suffragettes on GNgrin- nicely written and compelling ..but is it Liz or Rishi ?

I hope it's Liz because I think she'll fall to pieces faster than a piece of wet toilet paper and we could very well have a General Election... grin

I think it will be La Truss. The consensus of opinion appears to be that she is more likely to safeguard the fortunes of the Party and will be chosen for that reason. And it's possible that some think she's in the Thatcher mould - I don't, she doesn't have the steely determination nor conviction of her predecessor and think she'll blow with the wind a bit, depending on her popularity - something Thatcher was able to ignore.

Dickens Wed 27-Jul-22 20:38:01

Farzanah

Has anyone noticed that women’s rights are at risk from Truss in her present job as Minister for Women and Equalities? Apparently Caroline Nokes has written to her to see why commitments to abortion and sexual health rights were removed from the official multi-nation statement on gender equality?

This statement came about after the UK hosted a conference on freedom of religion and belief earlier this month.

I wonder the reason for this deletion and feel very uneasy about womens rights under this government, as so many other rights are being curbed.

I share your unease.

We are getting too cosy with the Republican Right in the USA, both economically and culturally, discarding the more liberal European values. I don't doubt for one minute that we are aligning ourselves with the Trumpian Right under this government.

Farzanah Wed 27-Jul-22 19:32:25

Has anyone noticed that women’s rights are at risk from Truss in her present job as Minister for Women and Equalities? Apparently Caroline Nokes has written to her to see why commitments to abortion and sexual health rights were removed from the official multi-nation statement on gender equality?

This statement came about after the UK hosted a conference on freedom of religion and belief earlier this month.

I wonder the reason for this deletion and feel very uneasy about womens rights under this government, as so many other rights are being curbed.

MaizieD Wed 27-Jul-22 17:06:22

Bea65

Dickens you must have been a suffragette in another life..think we have a few suffragettes on GNgrin- nicely written and compelling ..but is it Liz or Rishi ?

I hope it's Liz because I think she'll fall to pieces faster than a piece of wet toilet paper and we could very well have a General Election... grin

Bea65 Wed 27-Jul-22 16:58:43

Dickens you must have been a suffragette in another life..think we have a few suffragettes on GNgrin- nicely written and compelling ..but is it Liz or Rishi ?

MayBee70 Wed 27-Jul-22 16:52:26

Whitewavemark2

Truss on Johnson

Truss says she doesn’t think Johnson deserved to be kicked out by colleagues. “He made mistakes but I didn’t think the mistakes he made were sufficient that the Conservative Party should have rejected him”

This sort of mistake?

Yvette Cooper
@YvetteCooperMP

“As far as I am aware, no Government business was discussed.”

As far as I am aware.

Boris Johnson’s account today of meeting Alexander Lebedev.

Why is he not sure?

He was Foreign Secretary. He met an KGB agent during the Skripal crisis.

“Johnson was observed at Perugia airport after meeting KGB Alexander Lebedev at his palace party dishevelled and unable to walk in a straight line.”

I have absolutely no doubt that the entire event was recorded by the KGB. Neither do I have any doubt that there were drugs and alcohol in use.
Johnson arrived with NATO documents and his mobile

Let that sink in.

For someone who speaks in a flippant way most of the time he’s very careful with his words when answering accusations like this. I find Johnson as frightening as Trump.

Dickens Wed 27-Jul-22 16:45:03

MaizieD

The tory myth rather breaks down when it comes to individuals who work very hard indeed but still can't earn enough to keep themselves and their families in any comfort. I have always seen the LP as wanting a decent life for everyone, regardless of whether or not they achieve this elusive, poorly defined 'success'. I think it still does, regardless of what those on 'the left' might say.

I was going to say similar. Tories know full well that there are some occupations wherein no matter how hard you work you will not achieve that mythical 'success'. They are often the 'grunt' jobs that hold the community and infrastructure together, and frequently poorly paid.

I remember a media article regarding the annual influx (pre-pandemic) of customised 'super cars' belonging to wealthy Arab 'playboys' and others in central and west London. A reader commented on their wealth - noting that the cost of flying over these cars was in excess of £20,000 - only to be told that his were the "politics of envy" and that he too could achieve success if he were prepared to "work hard". Apart from the obvious fact that "playboys" by definition don't do hard work, no amount of it is going to propel the average worker into the Bulgari Hotel in Knightsbridge. An extreme example - but it demonstrates the facetious drivel that some on the Right will employ.

Whitewavemark2

He reminded the listener of the dismal text written by amongst others Truss and Patel which stated the British worker are the laziest shirkers in the entire world and should not be protected by law.

Once they enter the workplace, the British are among the worst idlers in the world. Are working-class Tory voters even aware of "Britannia Unchained" - have they read it?. The contempt for the class Truss is attempting to woo makes her faux concern even more abhorrent.

Doodledog

Yes, she tried to distance herself from that, but it is a disgraceful attitude to have towards the people she wants to lead.

Boris Johnson also had something to say about the "lazy, feckless, likely to be drunk, 'blue-collar' workers", noting that their white-collar counterparts were "little better"... 'and it never did 'im any 'arm'!

In fact, he's seen by many now as a victim who's been bullied out of office by a cabal of ungrateful MPs. Some feel so strongly about his demise, they now want him to be included on the ballot paper for the forthcoming vote on the future PM. Poor 'Boris', he was "doing his best"! His popular voter-appeal and 80 seat majority recovery programme is aimed at keeping the party afloat. As one admitted, that without Johnson, 'we might end up with Starmer in Number 10'

So in the end, it's not about the country, not about the huge problems in the NHS and social care, inflation, cost of living crises, ridiculously high energy prices... it's about keeping the party in power.

Meanwhile, the two lightweight hopefuls will slug it out. The big question being, tax-cuts now, or tax-cuts later. And the mounting crises will remain.

And for those of us who want a more fair, more equitable society, who don't want the extremes of political ideology, right or left, nor the divisions in society they encourage; nor the continuation of the blustering anti-EU rhetoric which, ultimately, harms us as a nation; nor further alignment with the economic and (dare I say) cultural values, of the USA... well, we might just have to sit back and accept that - in our lifetime - nothing will change.

Personally, I shall seek refuge in continuing to take part in events that bring together our local small town community and outlying villages; supporting local enterprise, donating to charities and movements that are developing recreational activities for the young and restoring some of the facilities for the elderly. I shall shop locally where possible to keep the town alive ("use it or lose it" is the motto of the town's quarterly advertising publication)... because it is a microcosm of what I believe society should / could be.

"When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies?... Too much sanity may be madness, and maddest of all is to see life as it is and not as it should be." (Miguel de Cervantes (1547-1616).

Whitewavemark2 Wed 27-Jul-22 14:05:21

Ref BBC

I keep forgetting!

Whitewavemark2 Wed 27-Jul-22 14:04:44

Interesting, it is a mute point I think. But the fact that he deployed the military …….

If guns weren’t intended for use why not use the police?

Churchill was also known to lie.

However

But a year later soldiers were again called in, this time to strike-related riots in Liverpool. On this occasion the soldiers did fire their weapons and two people were killed.

In 1919, under Churchill, by now Secretary of State for Air and War, tanks and an estimated 10,000 troops were deployed to Glasgow during a period of widespread strikes and civil unrest