Port of Dover

17:10Whitewavemark2

Probably be quicker on a dingy just get half way across the channel where Border Force will be waiting to pick you up no worries about passport control and a nice pizza any topping you desire when you arrive what could be better

Mamie

Prentice Dinahmo and I live in different parts of France. If we say we are seeing fewer British tourists then I think you could do us the courtesy of believing us.

Careful Mamie someone might pop up and tell us that we shouldn't be critical of the UK.

Off to Souillac tonight for a jazz festival. It doesn't start until 21h15 so should be relatively cool

Prentice you could say the same in reverse. Most of the French that we know have travelled to Britain several times and they actually like it. My previous doctor, now retired used to travel regularly to Scotland or Ireland for the fishing. Several of them worked fruit picking during their college holidays.In many way the French and the British are not so different.

I do wonder though, how many UK citizens, resident elsewhere in Europe are holidaying in the UK at the moment. We haven't been back for about 5 years.

Those who voted to Leave the EU cannot be blamed for how the government then goes on to handle things.

The government gave no idea of how they would handle things. They gave us no details of deals lined up, timescales, financial plans, measurable objectives, strategies or necessary infrastructure to make it work. Nothing. They didn't do this because they had no idea how they would make it work.

Leave voters just ticked a box that tore up the status quo on the basis of unsubstantiated nonsense such as 'the deal that Britain does with the EU after Brexit will be the easiest in human history'.

In my opinion this makes voting Leave a blameworthy action.

.

If I vote, as I will in the next General Election for the Labour Party, and they do some unpopular or disastrous things will I be blamed for giving them my vote?

The Leave voters were warned that this was likely to happen. They shouted 'Project Fear' and went ahead and voted Leave anyway.

If people do something stupid after being warned what would happen if they did it, then, yes, they can be blamed.

People were warned that voting for Johnson would be a disaster be cause he had a track record. They did it any way and it was/is a disaster. I think they can be blamed...

This from 18 months ago is enlightening
www.cityam.com/govt-rejects-33m-proposal-for-more-passport-booths-at-dover-leaving-longer-queues-more-likely/
Picked up again today by Guardian
www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/23/dover-travel-chaos-border-gridlock-brexit#:~:text=In%20December%202020%2C%20the%20UK,additional%20Brexit%2Drelated%20border%20expenses.
And others
www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/Port-of-Dover-queues-A-one-off-or-a-long-term-problem

We have been twice this year Dinahmo, after a two year gap. Once to see our daughter and family and once to a big family reunion in Wales. It was wonderful. I love the UK, I love France. Normandy has so much of both.

Yes as predicted another bonus of Brexit. Why oh why didn’t people realise this would happen?

People did realise it. And said so, repeatedly. We were called doomsters and gloomsters by the pound shop Bertie Wooster, and our warnings dismissed as Project Fear by leave voters.

Maudi

17:10Whitewavemark2

Probably be quicker on a dingy just get half way across the channel where Border Force will be waiting to pick you up no worries about passport control and a nice pizza any topping you desire when you arrive what could be better

Lots of comments like that on The Daily Express Facebook page, sadly….

I am thankful to be able to separate politics from blaming and hating ordinary people, simply because they vote a certain way.
Now I see blame from those who hate Conservatives, not merely the Party itself but the electorate too.I am not seeing the same hate for those of us who vote Labour or for any other Party.
And I wonder why that is.
We all need to accept the views of others and not merely accept but try and respect.When posters say such things as those who vote differently are fools, or stupid or have few brain cells and so on, all I see is how badly that reflects upon their own characters.
I do enjoy serious discussions as well as light hearted ones, but
It is hard to take some comments seriously when all they do is to disparage, not the topic, but real people.
It does go to show how divisive referendums are, perhaps it would be a good idea for the UK to never, ever have another one on any issue at all.

What could be better? Not having to flee your home country to escape persecution or death.

That would be better.

Prentice

I am thankful to be able to separate politics from blaming and hating ordinary people, simply because they vote a certain way.
Now I see blame from those who hate Conservatives, not merely the Party itself but the electorate too.I am not seeing the same hate for those of us who vote Labour or for any other Party.
And I wonder why that is.
We all need to accept the views of others and not merely accept but try and respect.When posters say such things as those who vote differently are fools, or stupid or have few brain cells and so on, all I see is how badly that reflects upon their own characters.
I do enjoy serious discussions as well as light hearted ones, but
It is hard to take some comments seriously when all they do is to disparage, not the topic, but real people.
It does go to show how divisive referendums are, perhaps it would be a good idea for the UK to never, ever have another one on any issue at all.

How many of those of us that voted to remain have been told that, if we love Europe so much then ‘go and live there’. If there is nastiness it isn’t one sided. And we’ve had abuse hurled at us in the street…’you lost, get over it’ etc.

BBC News is leading on the delays at Dover with frequent mention of this being the effects of passport and customs checks required by Brexit. Which is what I’ve been saying to the Brexiteers in my social circle for months!!
No joy in being vindicated.

It does appear Maybee70 to be very one sided on this site.
How does anyone in the street hurl abuse at you?
Do you get involved in arguments about politics on the street? this is very puzzling.
I seem able to go about my business very well as a Remainer, or should I say, one who voted to remain six years ago.

I think most people, regardless of how they voted do realise that travel to EU countries cannot be as seamless as it was before.That is not to say that problematic issues should never be solved to make things easier, and these things will come with time.
Until such time, holiday makers will have to rethink how and when they travel, as well as where to.
More important is the need to get the lorry situation sorted out in my view.

I think the mistake you’re making Prentice, with all due respect, is to think that the ‘right’ and the ‘left’ on this site can be put into opposing groups, and that the ‘left’ dominate. The reality is much more subtle than that. We are all different shades, and for that matter support different, or of no parties, and you only need to look on the other active threads to see the disagreement between people who are in the same party.
This thread has moved on to Brexit, but that is part of a much more consistent pattern of anger and frustration with the current government, from people on the furthest ‘left’ to the moderate ‘right’. Stick with it, and you’ll understand the posters more and see the differences between us. It rarely descends into unkindness, but people are forthright, which makes for good debate.

Thank you Casdon I must admit to be rather put off by some attitudes and rhetoric.
Naturally Brexit is not a matter of either right or left politics, as it does seem to cut across all manner of politics.
Frustrations and anger must be set aside to allow our country to move to the next phase.At the moment to a much needed new PM, then helping with the cost of living crisis.In two years a General Election, and going along at the same time as these things, making Brexit work well.
Coming out of the other side of the Covid pandemic as we hope we are, and continuing to help Ukraine and defuse the Russian threat are other real concerns.

Prentice you said earlier today on this thread that the Brexit vote wasn't right versus left. Now you seem to think that this is a party political issue. I don't hate anybody. Well, maybe Farage. I pity the people who were taken in by the false Brexit promises because their critical thinking skills are not very well developed and they seem to believe what people tell them without question, if it supports their preconceptions. And I blame them, yes.

As for arguing politics in the street? My then 81-year old dad had a go at the leader of the local Leave campaign who was having a mini-rally in the town centre the day after the Brexit vote. Must run in our family

volver

What could be better? Not having to flee your home country to escape persecution or death.

That would be better.

Leaving France is a lifestyle choice.

volver just as you don’t want pity for supporting the SNP I don’t want pity for agreeing (a great deal) with Farage.

Brexit won't work well Prentice. We might just survive, but not with any of today's Conservative politicians in charge.

That's the fallacy. That people think it will all be alright in the end and it was a reasonable choice to make. Neither of those things are true. The choices that have already been made about the manner of our Brexit have made it disastrous for the country and we will need decades to get over it. And if people don't see that, then the delusions remain.

So. Don't go thinking the reason this isn't going well is that there is a fifth column of people who won't get behind the new non-EU Britain. Because in fact there is a fifth column of people who will sell their grannies to make a buck, and they are in charge.

It is entirely possible to argue your case without being rude of course.I am the same age as your Dad now by the way, so you must be a mere youngster.I wish I was a bit younger when I get out of bed in the morning and creak.
Nothing good will be achieved if we don’t start to work together, and yes, trite it may be, but move on.

Urmstongran

volver just as you don’t want pity for supporting the SNP I don’t want pity for agreeing (a great deal) with Farage.

Well you've got my pity, whether you want it or not, if you agree with Farage.

Don't care if you pity me or not. As a Brexit voter and continuing supporter of Brexit then I'm not sure your opinion of anything, least of all me, is of any relevance to me whatsoever.

Urmstongran

volver

What could be better? Not having to flee your home country to escape persecution or death.

That would be better.

Leaving France is a lifestyle choice.

No its not, as you very well know.

And I'm not having this conversation here.