Port of Dover

Urmstongran

Hmm. You intellectuals really have no idea what goes on within working class communities sometimes! The ‘Red Wall’. In Salford city Himself worked in a factory. A friend worked as a site manager in the city of Manchester, refurbishment and upgrading of the huge hospital. That project took 3 years to complete. Now, think ‘Boys from the Blackstuff’. White vans every morning, picking workers (plasterers, brickies) up en route. Arriving at the factory gates ‘any jobs going?’. Promises of cash in hand, no cards, vastly reduced rates for their Polish & other van load. They had no chance at the highly unionised large factory and with the project manager. But thanks to Tony Blair ‘let ‘em all in’ policy, these men did get work more often than not on small sites, family owned, around Salford and north Manchester - Oldham, Shaw, Haywood etc. The gang masters soon learnt where best to head for. Pubs & working men’s clubs in our area knew what was happening. Why would some ‘bosses’ take on their sons & nephews when they could chance cheap rates? These men were sending sterling home, being exchanged at great rates & their families back home were benefiting greatly. They were living 5 & 6 to a house, dossing down on mattresses, sharing rooms, living cheap as chips. No roots. Our lads and lasses couldn’t compete by ‘working cheap’. They had high rents or mortgages to pay. Their sterling wasn’t being exchanged for anything higher! As you can imagine, over several years, this built up a lot of ill feeling. All I can say is that there are two sides to the Brexit story. Blue collar workers voted Leave. The white collar workers, office based, were shocked at the result. Up here? We weren’t.

And you people with two homes don't really understand that working class people can also make intellectual thoughts come together into a coherent world view. "Our lads and lasses" FGS. So British people exploiting immigrants was the immigrants fault, was it?

In case you were wondering, "intellectual" isn't an insult. Except among the s-----.

Ooops.

JaneJudge

there have been posts on here saying there should be restrictions on who can vote and I'm not the only one who finds that vulgar. You either believe in democracy or you don't and democracy means the lower classes can vote (as cn women, the disabled etc young and old) Our votes were hard fought for and just because someone has voted in a way I disagree with, it doesn't mean I think they are stupid (manipulated maybe but not stupid)

But there have been problems with the crossings for years, it was inevitable this would happen with tighter restrictions and swathes of people going on holiday via tunnel or ferry. I suppose they could always reopen the sink* ports but are there enough ferries?

*spelling in cultural reference #cinque

I also agree with you JaneJudge also with the refreshingly balanced posts from Prentice
Not that Brexit is a popular topic of conversation between my friends and acquaintances I do have friends that voted leave I would never be arrogant enough to call them stupid or any other derogatory remark They are certainly not stupid but just had a different view to me.
Brexit has certainly had its problems but who thinks they know exactly what will occur in the future - it might well end up completely different

Prentice From reading UK and French sources four or five border guards were one and a half hours late because of problems getting to Dover. Don't you think you are being a little harsh? If people have never been late for work due to unforeseen circumstances then I don't think they can have spent much time in the workplace!

Now tell me why Sunderland, with barely a sniff of any sort of immigrant population/workers, voted Leave?

I could Google an answer for you MaizieD there are plenty of articles giving reasons if you care to check it out.

Maybe the canny workers on the east coast just had their fingers on the pulse? They had turned away from Labour that’s for sure.

And you people with two homes don't really understand ...

Oh, not this canard again volver! Over several years I have patiently explained that our lifestyle choice could be done by anyone who owns a semi detached, ordinary house. Nowt grand either! We sold it and split he money between 2 very small apartments, which most on here would never choose to do. “Too small, no garage, no garden, no room for my crafts” etc. So to be honest your comment is so WIDE of the mark it makes me chuckle!

Post brexit travel chaos is the "new normal"

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/23/travel-chaos-is-the-new-normal-after-brexit-british-tourists-are-warned

To misquote Alan Johnson 'the working class have always been a disappointment to some people' . People voted in the referendum who hadnt voted in years. It might be more helpful to look at why that might have been rather than shouting at people for their vote. Many people think about politics for what is it? 7 minutes per week, yet those same people are making differences to people lives in a way that some politicians and people on the internet could only dream of. Just to be clear I am a remainer with an elderly parent from Europe, who at the time of the vote had lived in the UK for over 60 years and was not UK citizen, so it not as if Brexit had no impact on me. Jane's post said most of what I want to say to be honest.

How nice for you Urmstongran. Have a nice chuckle.

You own 2 houses. Incidentally, so do I. If you don't realise that you are privileged, there's not much I can say. Many people don't even own one. Even the intellectual ones.

Official French response.

Are being working class and an intellectual mutually exclusive?

The insults are stronger when the argument is weak!

Thank you to those of you who have taken the time to put across your point rationally without feeling the need to insult those that don’t share your views. Or, to resort to personal digs at people. Rants generally turn people off of listening to what may be a valid argument.

Galaxy

To misquote Alan Johnson 'the working class have always been a disappointment to some people' . People voted in the referendum who hadnt voted in years. It might be more helpful to look at why that might have been rather than shouting at people for their vote. Many people think about politics for what is it? 7 minutes per week, yet those same people are making differences to people lives in a way that some politicians and people on the internet could only dream of. Just to be clear I am a remainer with an elderly parent from Europe, who at the time of the vote had lived in the UK for over 60 years and was not UK citizen, so it not as if Brexit had no impact on me. Jane's post said most of what I want to say to be honest.

Some people had never voted prior to the referendum. Some friends in Hampshire have worked for many years at the polling stations but prior to the referendum had never been asked what to with the forms. Also asked how the voters could be certain that their forms weren't destroyed.

I remember what a faff it was going to Europe, pre-EU. All the different money, all the border checks. How easy it all became. Now of course we have greater numbers travelling than then. How can people expect it to be the same as when we were in the EU?

Please can someone explain why it is necessary for thousands of people rushing off on holiday on the same day? Not all campsites or holiday rentals require bookings of a week's duration.

It is the start of the school holidays Dinahmo.
We always used to do it. The ferries were smaller in those days. ?

Dinahmo

Please can someone explain why it is necessary for thousands of people rushing off on holiday on the same day? Not all campsites or holiday rentals require bookings of a week's duration.

I can, it’s the traditional ‘works fortnight’, when lots of factories, builders etc. close for their annual break, coinciding with children finishing school for their summer holidays.

I imagine it's because the school holidays have just started and people want to get away. If they book two weeks holiday from work from a Saturday they get the benefit of both weekends at the end of their break. Will be interesting to see if the queues are as bad on weekdays or subsequent weekends. There were long lorry queues last Monday.

So lets think about it this way.

Its years since I’ve been to the tropical south that includes Salford, but I am absolutely sure that Urmstongran is correct and there was exploitation of immigrant workers. Low pay, overcrowded accommodation, locals priced out of the market, etc. And that needs to be fixed. So what should we do?

1. Enforce the payment of proper salaries. Use whatever is available to us to prevent overcrowding, whether that’s local authority legislation or whatever. Treat the people who want to work here as…well…people I suppose. Recall the boys who went from here to Germany in the eighties to work in construction because the pay was better.

Or

2.Withdraw from the biggest trading bloc ever, and put an end to freedom of movement into and out of the UK, for workers, business and holidaymakers. Severely limit the workforce available to us. Remove all the benefits we have seen from 50 years membership of the EU in its various forms. Antagonise our nearest neighbours and behave like bad tempered children when we don’t get our own way.

Let me think….which one seems less "stupid"?

Urmston, it's silly to expect the French to pay for Brexit. If Brexit had never been then travellers would not need passports or French passport inspectors.

The insults are stronger when the argument is weak!

The Remain argument is backed by evidence, data and real life current experience unfolding every day. It isn't weak.

Its years since I’ve been to the tropical south that includes Salford, but I am absolutely sure that Urmstongran is correct and there was exploitation of immigrant workers. Low pay, overcrowded accommodation, locals priced out of the market, etc. And that needs to be fixed

Thank you volver for acknowledging that my anecdotal post was in fact truthful.

As you say the knee jerk reaction went the way it did. I think it was a case of “no-one’s listening to us so f**k the lot of them - Westminster (was Blair’s open door policy so the Red Wall turned against Labour) and Brussels”.

It’s done now. It won’t be revoked on our lifetimes on here. As for the future who knows?

But as Prentice said we need to accept it and move on now. It would be good to hear of progress being made about Brexit from Truss (or Sunak). I think they both realise they have 18 months to demonstrate tangible evidence of separating us from the EU.

I see the Daily Mail now has a headline blaming the French for demanding passport stamping.
There are no words.

I think maybe the problem is that the Leavers think we are living in the past and want to turn back the clock. I don't think that's the case. I expect everyone knows that we have left and won't be going back in for the foreseeable.

But most sensible people realise that it was a disastrous event in our history and no amount of patriotic exhortations to all pull together for the good of the nation are going to make it better. There won't be progress about Brexit because Brexit is backward looking and catastrophic. We've already got the tangible evidence of separating us from the EU. Haven't you noticed?

I live in a remain voting area, and we had masses of European workers.

Miss them a lot!

Whitewavemark2

I live in a remain voting area, and we had masses of European workers.

Miss them a lot!

We are off to an Italian restaurant, owned by Albanians staffed by folks from Madeira, Italy and France.

We still have Polish, Cypriot and many other European customers through our Trade Counter every single day.

It’s just untrue to say all EU Nationals have left the U.K.