Labour sacks shadow transport minister who backed strikes.

Maybee, one person on Facebook saying they will spoil their vote rather than vote for the current Labour Party does not speak for all disaffected Labour voters. People say a lot of things on Facebook that are not necessarily true and are not to be taken seriously.

As for not knowing what they want, well I don’t know who ‘they’ are but I can tell you what I want from a Labour leader - someone who is honest and principled, has beliefs, someone who will represent and stand up for ordinary working people. I would love to see a truly left leaning government which will take all essential public services back into public ownership and pledge to maintain the NHS. I accept that socialism has never been an essential element of the Labour Party, so I’m unlikely to see everything I want. I am able to accept compromise in the hope of progress towards a more equal society. I really don’t consider these beliefs to particularly radical or extremely left wing.

I am very disappointed in Keir Starmer, because I really don’t know what are his beliefs or principles. I know that now he doesn’t support public ownership, or strikes. That suggests to me that he doesn’t support the rights of ordinary working people. I am disappointed that he has already broken most if not all the pledges he made and this suggests to me that he is not a man who can be trusted. When he said, within a couple of months of being elected, ‘the Labour Party is under new management’ it jarred with me and I’ve never been able to shake it off. Political parties don’t need managers, they need leaders; they are movements, not businesses. If Starmer doesn’t know the difference then I really don’t think he’s in the right job.

DaisyAnne - spot on.

Grany

I agree with Glorianny Ilovecheese nightowl

Starmer was on a picket line in 2019 what is he going to do sack himself.

I'm sure you agree with them Grany. They share your bias toward the far-left. Sadly, far-left views will not help the Labour Party and other centre and centre-left parties form a government.

It doesn't matter what Andy Burnham and Sadiq Khan do. Without government, the Tories will move us further and further to the right. We will all suffer. The Labour Party needs the centre and the centre-left to believe in them so that they vote for them. The far-left is such a small percentage of the country they cannot bring Labour to power and, as we have seen, turn the centrists away from voting for them.

It’s just all exaggeration and misinterpretation. There’s a Labour Government in Wales, and none of the predicted disasters the left are talking about have happened here, in fact the opposite.

A local left wing politician was thrown out of the party but stood at the last election against the Labour candidate, thus splitting the vote, even though a Labour victory would have resulted in Corbyn being PM. So it wasn’t just the more right wing members of the party that were working against a Labour victory.

Ilovecheese

The left can hardly "bludgeon others into agreeing with their views."
Most of them have been expelled along with Ken Loach.

Thankfully, Andy Burnham and Sadiq Khan are more willing to support working people when they are driven to take industrial action.

I don't think they can, Ilovecheese. However, I doesn't seem to stop them think they can use rhetoric and misplaced moves to force change in the positions of those who lead their party.

When has anyone said they aren't willing to support working people or the NHS (as suggested by Glorianny)? There is little they can do when out of power. Perhaps you can quote where Starmer and shadow cabinet said that, if elected, they will not start to work in these areas. With what they are likely to inherit, it will not be possible to do it all at once. Politics is the art of the possible, not denying the possible while we wait, and wait and wait for perfection.

I used to write to Michael Foot. He was just so nice! I just think he thought that other people were as nice as he was! What is strange at the moment is this. If a politician does something that I respect I email them and thank them, doesn’t matter which party they belong to. I know you should only get a reply from your own MP but I find that I get nice replies from Conservative MP’s: sometimes generic but sometimes personal. I rarely get a reply from Labour MP’s.

MayBee, I liked Michael Foot and was devastated when the country didn’t share my enthusiasm. I was so much younger than (she sang) I’m wiser than that now.
I enjoyed Corbyn at the hustings, voted Cooper-Burnham because of my Foot experience. Supported him for a year because he was leader, left the party because he was hopeless etc but voted Labour in 2019 because we’d a good Labour Mp and I dreaded a Tory government. Our mp lost his seat, 450 majority for the Tory.
I rejoined and voted Starmer.
I’m genuinely puzzled about why some people who say they’re left leaning seem unable to learn from history, they will condemn us to more right wing tories rather than recognise their views aren’t shared by the majority

Glorianny

So what am I supposed to do when I see a party that is signing its own death warrant- over 200,000 members lost and contributions likely to be unable to support the party.
Long standing and valued members like Ken Loach thrown out.
No commitment to the NHS
No word on the cost of energy and how people will cope
Lack of action over the Forde report and the people named in it.
Just how much must people take before they are allowed to criticise.

It signed one death warrant when it chose Michael Foot as it’s leader. But it didn’t learn from that and then chose Corbyn. And I’m saying that as someone that supported Michael Foot but realised that the electorate don’t vote for left wing Labour leaders. I eventually left our local Labour Party because I wasn’t left wing enough for them but rejoined because of Keir. It’ll be interesting to see how I get on this time. Never experienced any nastiness when I joined the LibDems. What’s wrong with having a leader that seems to get on well with business leaders?

I agree with Glorianny Ilovecheese nightowl

Starmer was on a picket line in 2019 what is he going to do sack himself.

The left can hardly "bludgeon others into agreeing with their views."
Most of them have been expelled along with Ken Loach.

Thankfully, Andy Burnham and Sadiq Khan are more willing to support working people when they are driven to take industrial action.

So what am I supposed to do when I see a party that is signing its own death warrant- over 200,000 members lost and contributions likely to be unable to support the party.
Long standing and valued members like Ken Loach thrown out.
No commitment to the NHS
No word on the cost of energy and how people will cope
Lack of action over the Forde report and the people named in it.
Just how much must people take before they are allowed to criticise.

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnne please do not lump all Conservative voters/party members together.

I know many including family members who have cancelled their membership. I know many who cannot vote for the party in the next GE unless there is a change in its direction to the far right

We are not all part of the ERG fan club.

If they voted for this government, they lumped themselves together, GrannyGravy, I didn't. They gave power to the ERG. No one else did.

We need to wait and see what happens at the next election. The damage has been done by the voting at the last one.

DaisyAnne please do not lump all Conservative voters/party members together.

I know many including family members who have cancelled their membership. I know many who cannot vote for the party in the next GE unless there is a change in its direction to the far right

We are not all part of the ERG fan club.

Prentice

Iam64

The general public destroyed Corbyn.

yes they did, and quite rightly in my opinion.

it is not Conservative voters who are trying to bring down Sir Keir but his own side.Who else would they like to be the leader I wonder?Who else is capable of making labour a winning Party?
we cannot know how the voting public will feel in two years time, even a year seems a long time at the moment.
He made a good call in sacking Sam Tarry.

The Conservative voters are certainly open to the illusory truth effect, so will believe false information if it suits their preconceived views. The Conservative party will tell whatever lies they feel necessary to undermine the opposition. After all, they are all followers of a liar and gas-lighter.

A percentage of the Labour Party are quite prepared to let what they decide is the perfect be the enemy of what many can agree is the good. However, they are a minority of the voters who want a centre or left-of-centre government. They need to realise that they cannot bludgeon others into agreeing with their views.

Prentice

Iam64

The general public destroyed Corbyn.

yes they did, and quite rightly in my opinion.

it is not Conservative voters who are trying to bring down Sir Keir but his own side.Who else would they like to be the leader I wonder?Who else is capable of making labour a winning Party?
we cannot know how the voting public will feel in two years time, even a year seems a long time at the moment.
He made a good call in sacking Sam Tarry.

I don’t know what they want. Someone said on Facebook that, rather than have a watered down Conservative party they will just spoil their vote. What’s the point of that? I think they want the Conservative to totally destroy the country so they can, somehow, then get a socialist government.

varian

The Labour Party need to get their act together and do four things-

1 Stop attacking each other.

2 Work hard to win all the seats which are Tory / Labour contests - not just marginals but any seat where the LP came second to the Tories.

3 Let the other parties - the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the SNP , Plaid Cymru, get on with winning Tory seats where they are the strongest contenders.

4 Finally, and most importantly, pledge that they will reform our rotten voting system, replacing FPTP with PR, in accordance with the wishes of the vast majority of LP members in order to make the UK a true democracy.

Varian

1. Sadly, you can't stop people determined to destroy their own and others' lives. Some people seem to think that compromise is the modern day sin of sins.

2. I think that is happening. Those running the party seem to realise a carefully thought-through win is better than a holier than thou bloodbath.

3. I think they know they will need to do that too. It will be up to those parties you name to do their part, as there won't be a pact.

4. Again, I agree PR should be the first Bill put through a new parliament. Then all agreed policies. Then an election under PR. That would mean the currently dysfunctional can have the share of seats that equals the number who wish to vote for them rather than deluding themselves that they are some sort of majority.

Iam64

The general public destroyed Corbyn.

yes they did, and quite rightly in my opinion.

it is not Conservative voters who are trying to bring down Sir Keir but his own side.Who else would they like to be the leader I wonder?Who else is capable of making labour a winning Party?
we cannot know how the voting public will feel in two years time, even a year seems a long time at the moment.
He made a good call in sacking Sam Tarry.

2&3 might happen from your list varian
1. never will until the Labour Party splits. I’m coming to the conclusion that the denouement is very close. Bring it on please, I think a seismic shift in British politics is the best way forward now.
4. I’m ambivalent about 4. having seen it in action in Wales. It reduces local ownership and allows power to ‘anti’ representatives which confuses and delays decision making. However I can see that it also prevents domination by one party which has not been voted for by a majority of the public. I think before PR there should be legislation to require people to vote.

Varian - absolutely.

The Labour Party need to get their act together and do four things-

1 Stop attacking each other.

2 Work hard to win all the seats which are Tory / Labour contests - not just marginals but any seat where the LP came second to the Tories.

3 Let the other parties - the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the SNP , Plaid Cymru, get on with winning Tory seats where they are the strongest contenders.

4 Finally, and most importantly, pledge that they will reform our rotten voting system, replacing FPTP with PR, in accordance with the wishes of the vast majority of LP members in order to make the UK a true democracy.

Whitewavemark2

Anniebach

I will concentrate on Truss and Sunak, which ever wins the leadership will win the next general election

Can you imagine the state we will be in?

????

Anniebach

I will concentrate on Truss and Sunak, which ever wins the leadership will win the next general election

Can you imagine the state we will be in?

If Keir Starmer loses the next election it will be down to his poor and divisive leadership.

Kandinsky

If the Tory leader was a ‘Sir’ they’d never hear the end of it.
Seems to go unnoticed with Labour.

That does take the biscuit for the most inane comment of the day.
Keir Starmer was a Sir before he was elected as a politician
The last three PMs who were Sirs in office have all been Tories.