Labour sacks shadow transport minister who backed strikes.

DaisyAnne

Iam64

Starmer is rock and hard place. The minister went on the picket line and gave multiple unauthorised interviews. He knew he’d be sacked. The left are brewing a leadership challenge for September’s conference. Like that’s going to help defeat the awful tories ?

Agreed Iam64, when will they learn?

I really don't know, the LP should be well placed to win the next GE but unless they have a more unified party the Conservatives will get in again with an even more right wing agenda. I despair.

Iam64

Starmer is rock and hard place. The minister went on the picket line and gave multiple unauthorised interviews. He knew he’d be sacked. The left are brewing a leadership challenge for September’s conference. Like that’s going to help defeat the awful tories ?

Agreed Iam64, when will they learn?

Tony Blair stabbed the unions in the back 25 years ago so we shouldn’t be surprised by Labour really.

MaisieD Well said!

foxie48

I think it was the right decision and it's about time we stopped defining labour as "For the working man" and Conservative as "for the rich", it may have been appropriate in the past but it is not relative now and we need political parties to reflect that change. Strikes harm everyone and those that can do the most harm benefit tbh I'm not happy with that, why should a train driver have more "clout" than a care worker?

He doesn't ! A care worker has exactly the same right to withdraw their labour as any other worker.
You could also argue that those whose jobs are vital to the well being and vital infrastructure of our society are indeed deserving of decent wages and conditions. I would class care workers in that category.

Stop trying to bring this down to the small business man and his profits and recognise that there is a gap between the rich and poor in this country that is totally unacceptable, unless of course you are prepared to accept Victorian standards, and have the poor cold, and starving (which I believe Tories like Jacob Rees Mogg would

I don't think that anyone is trying to bring anything down to small businesses. They're just demonstrating that decent employee/employer relationships can exist. These people should be part of the Labour movement, too. Not only because they recognise the value of good relationships but also because they are very often the aspiring 'working class' and Labour is also a party of aspiration. And they work hard...

My local plumbers, builders, hairdressers, small shopkeepers etc. earn a living, provide some employment and service the local economy. They are very important to our general wellbeing. They're not of interest to the tory party because the tory party works purely in the interests of Big Money.

whitewavemark2 "Profit is certainly not a dirty word, but it could be shared more equitably."

I agree. My son recently changed his job because his company weren't paying their hard working employees enough or in line with other similar jobs. That company will suffer because their best and most productive workforce are leaving...pay peanuts you get monkeys.

There is free will on all this. Workers have a right to leave and find a better paid job.

Glorianny you obviously didn’t read my second paragraph…

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Profit is not a dirty word, nor is it illegal.

I have absolutely no problem with Companies making profit as long as all appropriate taxes are paid, their employees are paid a living wage in accordance with their skills/experience, reinvestment in the company/community and in the case of energy/transportation companies green technology along with the end user (us the public) is not being overcharged.

As for the CEO’s salary and bonuses they are vast and in these coming years of austerity could be viewed as obscene, unfortunately the genie is out of the bag and to get the right man/woman for the job these salaries are the norm

There is a chap in Cornwall who owns a business and as well as paying the above the rate salaries, they also share the profit.

He could not have made the profit without them. Seems a good man, with a happy and loyal workforce. I bet he has no employment issues

Nobody is saying profit is a dirty word (that's entirely in your imagination) but if excess profits and huge executive salaries mean ordinary working people are unable to live a reasonable life, are unable to eat, heat their home or travel any distance because they simply cannot afford it, how on earth can those profits or salaries be justified?
Stop trying to bring this down to the small business man and his profits and recognise that there is a gap between the rich and poor in this country that is totally unacceptable, unless of course you are prepared to accept Victorian standards, and have the poor cold, and starving (which I believe Tories like Jacob Rees Mogg would )

Thanks MaisieD I like to think that the good guys out number the bad ones, they are just not as vocal

Whitewavemark2

Profit is certainly not a dirty word, but it could be shared more equitably.

That was the point I was trying to make in my post.

As an employer I/we have had employees with us for 35+ years. We do make a healthy profit, on the other hand we pay well, treat them with respect and have never asked them to do something we wouldn’t/haven’t done ourselves.

GrannyGravy13

Profit is not a dirty word, nor is it illegal.

I have absolutely no problem with Companies making profit as long as all appropriate taxes are paid, their employees are paid a living wage in accordance with their skills/experience, reinvestment in the company/community and in the case of energy/transportation companies green technology along with the end user (us the public) is not being overcharged.

As for the CEO’s salary and bonuses they are vast and in these coming years of austerity could be viewed as obscene, unfortunately the genie is out of the bag and to get the right man/woman for the job these salaries are the norm

I absolutely agree with you, GG13. You do appear to be one of the 'good guys'.

Employer/employee relations should not have to be a battle as the relationship should be one of mutual benefit. We've never had a good record in the UK for such relationships, though ?

I'm afraid that my answer to those obscene salaries and bonuses would be to progressively tax the hell out of them. Make the norm not worth trying for.. Don't tell me that any CEO is worth £1,000x a worker...

Profit is certainly not a dirty word, but it could be shared more equitably.

There's information about rail profits and the excessive salaries of senior management here www.opendemocracy.net/en/firstgroup-abellio-rail-strikes-rmt-shareholders-payout/
A Dutch company runs some train lines

GrannyGravy13

Profit is not a dirty word, nor is it illegal.

I have absolutely no problem with Companies making profit as long as all appropriate taxes are paid, their employees are paid a living wage in accordance with their skills/experience, reinvestment in the company/community and in the case of energy/transportation companies green technology along with the end user (us the public) is not being overcharged.

As for the CEO’s salary and bonuses they are vast and in these coming years of austerity could be viewed as obscene, unfortunately the genie is out of the bag and to get the right man/woman for the job these salaries are the norm

There is a chap in Cornwall who owns a business and as well as paying the above the rate salaries, they also share the profit.

He could not have made the profit without them. Seems a good man, with a happy and loyal workforce. I bet he has no employment issues

Ilovecheese

Sam Tarry gave, I thought, a very good and clear message, he said that if there was a Labour Government there would be no need for the picket line.
Easily understood and sensible. This is the sort of message that the Labour party should be shouting out, not some waffle about "front bench collective responsibility ".

Yes, I saw that and liked it. It is, in essence, the message that Starmer is pushing. If Labour were in government they would be facilitating negotiations not stirring the pot as the tories are in refusing to allow the train companies to reach a settlement.

But, all the same, Tarry was in the wrong in going on the picket line and giving all those media interviews. He knew it and he knew what the score would be.

Once again, I'm not aware that the 'ban' applies to backbench MPs (can anyone confirm or deny this?). They're not thrown out of the party for showing support AFAIK.

Profit is not a dirty word, nor is it illegal.

I have absolutely no problem with Companies making profit as long as all appropriate taxes are paid, their employees are paid a living wage in accordance with their skills/experience, reinvestment in the company/community and in the case of energy/transportation companies green technology along with the end user (us the public) is not being overcharged.

As for the CEO’s salary and bonuses they are vast and in these coming years of austerity could be viewed as obscene, unfortunately the genie is out of the bag and to get the right man/woman for the job these salaries are the norm

Sam Tarry gave, I thought, a very good and clear message, he said that if there was a Labour Government there would be no need for the picket line.
Easily understood and sensible. This is the sort of message that the Labour party should be shouting out, not some waffle about "front bench collective responsibility ".

Centrica - 5 fold increase in profit?

I was just thinking I wonder how many of the people who voted for Brexit realise how the money they pay for power is going to European countries?

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

The most popular figures in the media spotlight today are Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey. If Starmer had any sense he would be standing beside them. As it is it is Union officials who are saying the things Labour, as the opposition party, should be saying. Criticising the huge profits and money leaving the country, the excessive salaries paid to executives and the failure of wages to keep up with the huge rises in costs for ordinary people. Unfortunately the Labour leader seems unable to say the same things, possibly because he is busy dealing with his own fortune.

Who are they popular with, Glorianny? Certainly, the right-wing press talks about them but we are talking about voting in an FPTP system. They become irrelevant where that is concerned although they are standing up for their members and that is, of course, to be applauded. That is their job. It is not the Labour Party's job. Theirs is to put forward plans for an environment in which all can thrive.

What, exactly, are the union officials saying that Labour should be saying? It would help to know what your complaint is. Our problem is not Labour but the Tory government. A government that its best advocates will say believes in a mixed economy - yet that is a lie. It has long since stopped being that.

Its magnates, on the other hand, will now say that we all need a complete market economy with little or no state. Yet this seems to be a market where only the magnates benefit. We have trained workers in short supply. Yet what do these "market economy" privileged few tell us?

*These people are the wrong kind of market. It works differently for them.*

This is what I said the union officials are saying that labour should be saying
Criticising the huge profits and money leaving the country, the excessive salaries paid to executives and the failure of wages to keep up with the huge rises in costs for ordinary people
Energy companies made huge profits last year but fuel costs are rising.
Rail companies made huge profits and paid huge salaries to executives.
I think most people faced with huge fuel bills and rising travel costs know ML is right.

Let's start with the first one. To which "huge profits and money leaving the country" are you referring? So far, that just sounds like a red-top headline.

Amazing that people don't realise this. The energy companies are making millions in profits. Of those companies one is French owned, one is German and one is a co-ownership with an Irish company. You can read about the massive profits and ownership here www.getreading.co.uk/news/cost-of-living/who-owns-britains-big-power-23657503
It isn't a red-top headline it is the sort of information that Mick Lynch is publicising. You can understand the Tories not wanting people to know but the LP should be shouting this from the rooftops.
I'll do rail companies and their profits if I have time.

GrannyGravy13

I cannot at the moment vote for the Conservatives, and whilst there is conflict and confusion amongst the Labour Party cannot vote for them.

Hopefully both parties will get their acts together before the next GE and offer the electorate a way forward…

Quite, gg.

paddyann54 I absolutely agree that everyone should get a fair wage for a job well done and good productivity. However, some practices are out of date and we need to come into the 21st century. There is no job for life.. work is very transient nowadays.

Not everyone works in the Public Sector. There is no union support for the self-employed. There is no guaranteed income either. I have been self-employed for many years and have no support when work dries up...certainly not statutory holidays, if I get any!

Yes, I'm also working class (whatever that means nowadays) and a working woman.

We can't always look at a situation through the lense of the Public Sector and those that are aspiring to work hard as a self-employed.

GrannyGravy13

Totally agree Dickens 09.43.03

So do I.

I cannot at the moment vote for the Conservatives, and whilst there is conflict and confusion amongst the Labour Party cannot vote for them.

Hopefully both parties will get their acts together before the next GE and offer the electorate a way forward…