Labour sacks shadow transport minister who backed strikes.

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Can I ask why it matters to you so much Glorianny? As long as he pays his taxes, just what has he done wrong?

He has worked hard and earned his money. As I understand it, Johnson cannot hang on to his money. As we have seen, he expects others to pay for his extravagances. Generally, people see this as a fault in a PM.

Corbyn has a net worth of £3 million apparently, so hardly on the bread-line. He has earned a decent salary for over 30 years as an MP. Considerably better than many who voted for him. His family is what I see is described as reasonably wealthy so he may have inherited some - who knows. I imagine he pays his tax too.

Being able to educate yourself, learn and earn in what is a very low-paid job when you start and then earn well because few reach the level of knowledge and capability you have seems to me to be very creditable.

Do you believe all those who consider themselves on the left should go around in hair shirts? Do you do this - all your money to charity, for example?

FFS it doesn't matter to me. It was a reason why possibly he has lost touch with working people and an attempt to explain his shifting from Labour policies which have been popular to Tory-lite ones.
And I'm not the one who is resurrecting it. But I can see why it's being done because the other posts I've written about his lack of consistency, failure to keep promises, and shifting ideas absolutely undermine the idea that he is a man of principal who can be trusted. How about focussing on those for a change?

You don't need to swear. It doesn't add in any way to what you say. I seem to remember you have resorted to it before - when you couldn't make people agree with your opinions.

No wonder I had no idea why you were harping on about what he earned. What does the idea Starmer has "lost touch with working people" even mean? As he earned his money by working, it seems you have a very narrow classification of "working people". Nor do I think he shows any sign of being a Tory - that's just weird. I think he sees the world as it is, not as it was in 1945. Why should anyone constantly focus on your opinions?

Maybe it's too hard for some to accept the change. Apparently, it takes people about six weeks to accept that change is happening. I think six centuries would not be enough for some in the Labour Party, and they probably still wouldn't accept that even though principles haven't changed, how the Labour Party achieves them has to, or nothing will change for those relying on them.

However, I can see that you want what you want and will not accept a democratic vote for a leader if the person chosen doesn't act exactly as you expect them to. By the sound of things, you would prefer to destroy the Labour Party rather than not have what you want.

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Can I ask why it matters to you so much Glorianny? As long as he pays his taxes, just what has he done wrong?

He has worked hard and earned his money. As I understand it, Johnson cannot hang on to his money. As we have seen, he expects others to pay for his extravagances. Generally, people see this as a fault in a PM.

Corbyn has a net worth of £3 million apparently, so hardly on the bread-line. He has earned a decent salary for over 30 years as an MP. Considerably better than many who voted for him. His family is what I see is described as reasonably wealthy so he may have inherited some - who knows. I imagine he pays his tax too.

Being able to educate yourself, learn and earn in what is a very low-paid job when you start and then earn well because few reach the level of knowledge and capability you have seems to me to be very creditable.

Do you believe all those who consider themselves on the left should go around in hair shirts? Do you do this - all your money to charity, for example?

FFS it doesn't matter to me. It was a reason why possibly he has lost touch with working people and an attempt to explain his shifting from Labour policies which have been popular to Tory-lite ones.
And I'm not the one who is resurrecting it. But I can see why it's being done because the other posts I've written about his lack of consistency, failure to keep promises, and shifting ideas absolutely undermine the idea that he is a man of principal who can be trusted. How about focussing on those for a change?

You don't need to swear. It doesn't add in any way to what you say. I seem to remember you have resorted to it before - when you couldn't make people agree with your opinions.

No wonder I had no idea why you were harping on about what he earned. What does the idea Starmer has "lost touch with working people" even mean? As he earned his money by working, it seems you have a very narrow classification of "working people". Nor do I think he shows any sign of being a Tory - that's just weird. I think he sees the world as it is, not as it was in 1945. Why should anyone constantly focus on your opinions?

Maybe it's too hard for some to accept the change. Apparently, it takes people about six weeks to accept that change is happening. I think six centuries would not be enough for some in the Labour Party, and they probably still wouldn't accept that even though principles haven't changed, how the Labour Party achieves them has to, or nothing will change for those relying on them.

However, I can see that you want what you want and will not accept a democratic vote for a leader if the person chosen doesn't act exactly as you expect them to. By the sound of things, you would prefer to destroy the Labour Party rather than not have what you want.

I don't "resort" to anything. I swear sometimes (quite often). You don't. I respect your right to decide not to, try respecting my right to swear if I want to.
Anyway the only person destroying the LP now is Starmer who has managed to half the membership, is threatened with the removal of more union funding and effectively is bankrupting the party. How they will manage to fight an election no one knows. But Yes of course it's my fault

Starmer is the LP’s best hope. He isn’t destroying it, he’s attempting the impossible, to get the ‘left’ to compromise, you know, that filthy word that might just mean we don’t have 12 more years of the tories.

I live in the north west. Houses worth 1million aren’t the norm here. I’m visiting good pals in south Manchester tomorrow, 12 mikes away, their house, bought the same tine as mine, is worth 850,000. They got Labour, worked in public service, should they be dismissed because the value of their house increased so much more than mine.
I’m waiting for someone to find a criticism of Starmer that means something

Keir spent a lot of time helping the unions legally before he entered politics. Why are they so opposed to him now? Is it because some people can’t stomach the thought of a Labour leader that a traditional Conservative voter might vote for?

You may have it there MayBee.

I was working when Starmer was a young barrister, he represented so many bro pono cases, the head if his chambers feared he’d never earn enough to get a mortgage. His work at the CPS was excellent.

He’s a hard working, decent, law abiding man.

You Starmer supporters certainly know how to make left leaning people feel welcome and appreciated.

I left our local Labour Party because I was never left wing enough for them. I have now rejoined.

Ilovecheese

You Starmer supporters certainly know how to make left leaning people feel welcome and appreciated.

It works all ways doesn’t it

Iam64

Starmer is the LP’s best hope. He isn’t destroying it, he’s attempting the impossible, to get the ‘left’ to compromise, you know, that filthy word that might just mean we don’t have 12 more years of the tories.

I live in the north west. Houses worth 1million aren’t the norm here. I’m visiting good pals in south Manchester tomorrow, 12 mikes away, their house, bought the same tine as mine, is worth 850,000. They got Labour, worked in public service, should they be dismissed because the value of their house increased so much more than mine.
I’m waiting for someone to find a criticism of Starmer that means something

The left compromised when they voted for Starmer. He promised to unite the party.
He made ten pledges which I posted a link to. He hasn't kept those pledges. He supported lecturers when they were on strike but won't support the railway workers. He hasn't committed to no more privatisation of the NHS. He won't commit to taking utilities and the railways back to non-profit making concerns. Exactly how much "compromise" is acceptable before it becomes absolutely obvious that this is a leader who will say one thing and do another. If it comes to a GE all of his past promises will be used to show how duplicitous he is. And you still believe he could win????

MayBee70

Keir spent a lot of time helping the unions legally before he entered politics. Why are they so opposed to him now? Is it because some people can’t stomach the thought of a Labour leader that a traditional Conservative voter might vote for?

Each party needs votes out of the base while we have FPTP. So I think you may have got something there Maybe

I don’t know anyone from what’s generally seen as the left who voted for Starmer. My CLP’s left group wanted Rebecca Long Bailey

Ilovecheese

You Starmer supporters certainly know how to make left leaning people feel welcome and appreciated.

I would call myself left-leaning or centre-left. I imagine Starmer will appeal to others in those positions. I should add a caveat - we are not there yet. Those trying to destroy what is a valid attempt to bring the Labour Party to power are on the far-left of the party. The balance, if you will, to the ERG and Johnson.

DaisyAnne

Ilovecheese

You Starmer supporters certainly know how to make left leaning people feel welcome and appreciated.

I would call myself left-leaning or centre-left. I imagine Starmer will appeal to others in those positions. I should add a caveat - we are not there yet. Those trying to destroy what is a valid attempt to bring the Labour Party to power are on the far-left of the party. The balance, if you will, to the ERG and Johnson.

It doesn't really matter if you are far left (I'm not) or centre left, when it comes to a GE the LP will have no money to fight and a leader who the press will vilify showing examples of promises he has made and broken. It isn't difficult to find them. He will be for many a true example of the politicians they have condemned as westminster elitist liars.
Where's the "valid attempt to bring the LP to power' there?

Glorianny, who would you prefer as leader.
It seems there may be calls for a vote of no confidence at conference in September
I like Lisa Nandy, Wes Streeting and others but, I see no point in a leadership campaign

There was an interesting programme on Radio 4 this morning at 09.00, The Long view. Well worth a listen as it looked at the position taken by Ramsey McDonald during the General Strike and Kinnock during the Winter of Discontent. I think it explains the position KS is taking and why.

Iam64

Glorianny, who would you prefer as leader.
It seems there may be calls for a vote of no confidence at conference in September
I like Lisa Nandy, Wes Streeting and others but, I see no point in a leadership campaign

I think Lisa Nandy would be a good leader. She's young , talented, committed and a woman!!!
As far as those who claim to be centre left go, why don't you join the Lib Dems a party which seems much closer to your ideals? Then Labour could become the party it should be. Oh hang on it's obvious why you don't. The Lib Dems is a washed out wreck of a party that is failing. And that seems to be the route many of you want to drag the Labour Party along as well.

We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down.
Aneurin Bevan

Iam64

I don’t know anyone from what’s generally seen as the left who voted for Starmer. My CLP’s left group wanted Rebecca Long Bailey

I am left leaning. I voted for Starmer. I was willing to compromise. I believed what he said when he wanted the leadership.
I believed he would keep to the direction of his pledges, if not to the letter.
I believed he would try and unite the party.
I feel a fool now.

Glorianny

Iam64

Glorianny, who would you prefer as leader.
It seems there may be calls for a vote of no confidence at conference in September
I like Lisa Nandy, Wes Streeting and others but, I see no point in a leadership campaign

I think Lisa Nandy would be a good leader. She's young , talented, committed and a woman!!!
As far as those who claim to be centre left go, why don't you join the Lib Dems a party which seems much closer to your ideals? Then Labour could become the party it should be. Oh hang on it's obvious why you don't. The Lib Dems is a washed out wreck of a party that is failing. And that seems to be the route many of you want to drag the Labour Party along as well.

We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down.
^Aneurin Bevan^

I did join the LibDems because of their stance regarding brexit. And look what happened. Of course, Lisa Nandy was one of the Labour MP’s who said straight away that the referendum result had to be respected unlike many others who questioned the validity of a vote won by lying to the electorate. What a horrible thing to say about the LibDems. They were a great bunch of people unlike the far left in my constituency party who made me feel unwelcome and who may do the same again now that I’ve rejoined.

Thank goodness Starmer is showing some backbone. He is the leader and it’s all about discipline and leadership. Something Johnson completely lacks.

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Ilovecheese

You Starmer supporters certainly know how to make left leaning people feel welcome and appreciated.

I would call myself left-leaning or centre-left. I imagine Starmer will appeal to others in those positions. I should add a caveat - we are not there yet. Those trying to destroy what is a valid attempt to bring the Labour Party to power are on the far-left of the party. The balance, if you will, to the ERG and Johnson.

It doesn't really matter if you are far left (I'm not) or centre left, when it comes to a GE the LP will have no money to fight and a leader who the press will vilify showing examples of promises he has made and broken. It isn't difficult to find them. He will be for many a true example of the politicians they have condemned as westminster elitist liars.
Where's the "valid attempt to bring the LP to power' there?

I don't agree with you that should Starmer lead a Labour Party into the next election the Unions will not back him. They may feel it is worth trying to move the Labour Party toward one that allows the Unions to be the driver; they have been doing that ever since its inception. However, that is what turns me and other non-member, centre or centre-left voters away from voting Labour. I would call that attitude very far-left as it appears people with these views want the county run by the unions and I find that undemocratic. Those leading the unions know they have to be pragmatic when we come to an election or they will get nothing in spite of the ranting we are subjected to.

I do not agree with your view of Starmer. Others may agree to a greater or lesser degree. To get into government each of the larger parties requires all the votes they can get from outside their natural base as well as within it. What is the point of being a party if you don't try and secure power?

Personal attacks on politicians turn people away (as do personal attacks on posters). If you could stop the rants against Starmer we could then talk about politics. If you can't, there is probably no point in trying to discuss this with you.

DaisyAnne if you stopped trying to take the higher ground for a moment and actually addressed the contents of my posts instead of trying to dismiss them as "anti-Starmer" you will find plenty of politics.
There's the question of Starmer's ten pledges for instance. At the core of politics and what Labour stands for. He's already abandoned 3 of them.
Let's discuss No 5
Common ownership
Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.
I think he no longer agrees with this (1 pledge broken)
I support that pledge, so do most LP members, so do a lot of the British public
Next No 7
Strengthen workers’ rights and trade unions
Work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay. Repeal the Trade Union Act. Oppose Tory attacks on the right to take industrial action and the weakening of workplace rights.
Shoulder to shoulder? He won't even acknowledge the railway workers right to strike!
There's two bits of Starmer evasions for you to deal with. That is politics. Calling people who support. and defend those ideas far-left is just name calling.
(We can do the third one later!)

Glorianny

DaisyAnne if you stopped trying to take the higher ground for a moment and actually addressed the contents of my posts instead of trying to dismiss them as "anti-Starmer" you will find plenty of politics.
There's the question of Starmer's ten pledges for instance. At the core of politics and what Labour stands for. He's already abandoned 3 of them.
Let's discuss No 5
Common ownership
Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.
I think he no longer agrees with this (1 pledge broken)
I support that pledge, so do most LP members, so do a lot of the British public
Next No 7
Strengthen workers’ rights and trade unions
Work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay. Repeal the Trade Union Act. Oppose Tory attacks on the right to take industrial action and the weakening of workplace rights.
Shoulder to shoulder? He won't even acknowledge the railway workers right to strike!
There's two bits of Starmer evasions for you to deal with. That is politics. Calling people who support. and defend those ideas far-left is just name calling.
(We can do the third one later!)

But you overwhelm your posts with "I hate Starmer" style comments. I do not have to "respect" the fact that you swear. I do not swear at you and I have done nothing that would allow for such a personal attack. Now you are insisting we discuss your narrow interests. What have you done that would make me remain interested in discussing this with you?

Is it the point of your part of the Labour Party to tell others that you do not want their vote, as you did above; to go and join another party? Is that what your branch of the party wants? Does it have to be a party unblemished by degrees of different thinking that can never win an election and will, eventually comprise potty-mouthed peopled dwindling to numbers that just make them an irritant.

Because that is the only message I am getting from you.

Good post DaisyAnn
The moral high ground, the inability to discuss without dismissing others is regularly on display from momentum supporters.
Like IMG, SWP they don’t influence anyone but each other

Well it was Rachel Reeves that said she was glad that left leaning people had left the Labour party.

I see Rachel Reeves as an asset
It’s good to see her in interviews