Labour sacks shadow transport minister who backed strikes.

So why are they ahead in the polls?

Let's make this very clear I don't believe Starmer can win a GE. So my criticisms are absolutely legitimate and well intentioned. I don't believe he has the ability to win back the red wall or to attract many votes from people who traditionally vote Tory. The man has the personality of a doormat. As for throwing people out of the party being a start to unification, at the rate things are going by the next GE there won't be enough people left in the party to do anything, so perhaps it will be united, unfortunately it will also be bankrupt.
How you can fight a GE without any money I don't know

But it is true that the left of the party are the ones accused of scuppering the Labour party’s chances at elections. Whereas the Forde report confirmed that paid officials actively plotted to undermine the campaign during the 2019 election, and diverted funds away from candidates they didn’t like and from winnable seats. Now if that’s not grounds for immediate sacking and expulsion from the party I don’t know what is. But instead they were paid off and are still party members. Double standards operating here methinks.

Ilovecheese

It does always seem that it is up to the left of the party to toe the line and keep our opinions to ourselves. The right of the party can let rip, organise coup, say what they like and that was somehow o.k.

That did make me chuckle Ilovecheese. Whatever you say about the left of the party, being backward at coming forward is not one of your failings. On here is just one example, so few people, but so much noise.

I don't think that's true Ilovecheese. You might try asking those who had strong views about Corbyn found they were received.

It does always seem that it is up to the left of the party to toe the line and keep our opinions to ourselves. The right of the party can let rip, organise coup, say what they like and that was somehow o.k.

Oh dear Daisyanne where do I begin?

It is my opinion that Starmer cannot be trusted for all the reasons stated quite a few times by different posters. I said I accept that others don’t agree with me, so please accept that I don’t agree with you. I have given reasons for my opinion, whereas you have simply stated ‘there is nothing wrong with his integrity, his trustworthiness or his honesty’ as if it were a fact rather than just your opinion.

As to criticising him in public, am I not allowed to do that? Should we simply toe the party line and never speak out when we feel disappointed in our leaders? Do I really believe my views will discourage people from voting Labour? I don’t think I have that much influence to be honest, but anyway, I thought debate was no all about exchanging views in a polite and reasoned manner.

As your last question (facetious as it is) falls so far short of that benchmark I will choose to ignore it. I don’t believe in personalising discussions.

Glorianny

So if it isn't lying to promise to unite a party and then not only throw out people who disagree with you, but reward others who have worked against the party leader, and at the same time antagonise over 200,000 people so much they leave the party what is it? It's either lying, incompetence or succumbing to influences that persuaded you to abandon that promise. Any way it doesn't look good for someone who wants to lead the country. Do we really need a leader who can't keep his word?

It is only your "opinion" that throwing out the people causing dissent was counter to uniting the party. It could equally (or perhaps, more so) be seen as a sensible first step. So, because of your "opinion", Starmer is a liar. Many would not agree.

You aren't a Labour Party supporter, are you Glorianny?

nightowl

Whitewavemark2

You are making the perfect the enemy of good.

Not at all whitewave I am very open to compromise, I’m a realist and I want this government out at the earliest opportunity. But integrity, trustworthiness and honesty is my bottom line and that’s where I feel Starmer fails. Clearly not everyone agrees but that’s my view. I’m not saying I wouldn’t vote Labour despite that, just that I can’t trust the leader.

There is nothing wrong with his integrity, his trustworthiness or his honesty.

If you would still vote Labour "despite" your view, why argue it in public? Aren't you more likely to encourage people not to vote labour by doing so - or is that what you want so that you can feel righteous?

Whitewavemark2

You are making the perfect the enemy of good.

Exactly Whitewave.

So yet again what do you want? Another ten years of Tory government? Because you hate Keir? What about the rest of the party that will make an amazing government? Yvette, Jess, Wes, Tulip, Peter, Chris Bryant? Who do you want to be leader? How are you going to achieve it? Do you just want Truss for PM so you can continually moan about how much better your kind of Labour Party would be. Or are you worried that Keir might just make this country a better place? Because nothing can be worse than what we have now.

MayBee70

Glorianny

Iam64

Thanks for your post Prentice. I still admire the Blair government, remember clearly my work in areas of high deprivation becoming less depressing as new community schools which were also libraries, family centres, had social workers, midwives, health visitors all available under one roof to support families.
Iraq was a disaster. I was one of the many marching - not in my name. It’s one of those occasions when being right achieves nothing. Much like being right that a Johnson government would benefit the rich but not the rest
I’m in a red wall area. Many people voted Tory to stop Corbyn. Same in the nearby area with a large Jewish community, they voted anything to keep Corbyn out of Downing Street
Let’s hope Starmer can keep the rolling ship steady

I'm always interested how will Starmer, a Remainer, a lawyer, part of the Westminster elite, with the media personality of a doormat manage to win back the red wall?

That’s a vile thing to say about a thoroughly decent person. I can remember Corbyn sitting in parliament glaring at some of his colleagues…one that sticks in my mind was when he glared at Hilary Benn who gave the most wonderful speech one day that Corbyn didn’t y approve of. Corbyn got lots of young people to join the Labour Party because he promised to scrap tuition fees. The very people that were chanting oh Jeremy Corbyn at Glastonbury were later chanting where’s Jeremy Corbyn when Keir was with us on the peoples vote marches. Corbyn never even had the decency to admit that he supported brexit. But then he had such an amazing personality and charisma didn’t he. So much so that people were saying on the doorstep that they couldn’t vote Labour because of him.

I trust someone who just glares at a person in his party he disagrees with more than I trust someone who just chucks his opponents out of the party. One is a mature attitude the other is childish^ I don't like what you say so you can't play in my yard^ Unfortunately Starmer doesn't seem to realise it isn't really his yard, he's just been leant it.
Anyway why keep harping on about Corbyn? Possibly because here is so little to say about Starmer?

Integrity, trustworthiness and honesty cannot be applied to
Corbyn, not in private or public life.

DiamondLily

Starmer, like Blair, understands that he needs to reach the floating vote/middle ground.

Corbyn failed, because mainstream voters wouldn't vote for him.

Even as a Labour member from 1979 until Corbyn became leader, I wouldn't have voted for him.

I think you are correct DiamondLily whichever party catches the attention of the middle ground and the floating voter will win the next GE.

nightowl

Whitewavemark2

You are making the perfect the enemy of good.

Not at all whitewave I am very open to compromise, I’m a realist and I want this government out at the earliest opportunity. But integrity, trustworthiness and honesty is my bottom line and that’s where I feel Starmer fails. Clearly not everyone agrees but that’s my view. I’m not saying I wouldn’t vote Labour despite that, just that I can’t trust the leader.

As I said above, the most important thing is to get shot of the most destructive government ever.

Everywhere you look we are in crises. Crises in housing, crises in NHS, crises in the economy, crises in cost of living, crises in energy, on and on.

As long as people of the left and not so left use their vote intelligently to crush this evil, we can then begin to plan for the future, but it won’t be easy, has there ever been a future government which has had to face such a wreckage?

Starmer, like Blair, understands that he needs to reach the floating vote/middle ground.

Corbyn failed, because mainstream voters wouldn't vote for him.

Even as a Labour member from 1979 until Corbyn became leader, I wouldn't have voted for him.

But you trusted Corbyn who said one thing about be it but believed another?

Whitewavemark2

You are making the perfect the enemy of good.

Not at all whitewave I am very open to compromise, I’m a realist and I want this government out at the earliest opportunity. But integrity, trustworthiness and honesty is my bottom line and that’s where I feel Starmer fails. Clearly not everyone agrees but that’s my view. I’m not saying I wouldn’t vote Labour despite that, just that I can’t trust the leader.

Glorianny

Iam64

Thanks for your post Prentice. I still admire the Blair government, remember clearly my work in areas of high deprivation becoming less depressing as new community schools which were also libraries, family centres, had social workers, midwives, health visitors all available under one roof to support families.
Iraq was a disaster. I was one of the many marching - not in my name. It’s one of those occasions when being right achieves nothing. Much like being right that a Johnson government would benefit the rich but not the rest
I’m in a red wall area. Many people voted Tory to stop Corbyn. Same in the nearby area with a large Jewish community, they voted anything to keep Corbyn out of Downing Street
Let’s hope Starmer can keep the rolling ship steady

I'm always interested how will Starmer, a Remainer, a lawyer, part of the Westminster elite, with the media personality of a doormat manage to win back the red wall?

That’s a vile thing to say about a thoroughly decent person. I can remember Corbyn sitting in parliament glaring at some of his colleagues…one that sticks in my mind was when he glared at Hilary Benn who gave the most wonderful speech one day that Corbyn didn’t y approve of. Corbyn got lots of young people to join the Labour Party because he promised to scrap tuition fees. The very people that were chanting oh Jeremy Corbyn at Glastonbury were later chanting where’s Jeremy Corbyn when Keir was with us on the peoples vote marches. Corbyn never even had the decency to admit that he supported brexit. But then he had such an amazing personality and charisma didn’t he. So much so that people were saying on the doorstep that they couldn’t vote Labour because of him.

You are making the perfect the enemy of good.

Glorianny

So if it isn't lying to promise to unite a party and then not only throw out people who disagree with you, but reward others who have worked against the party leader, and at the same time antagonise over 200,000 people so much they leave the party what is it? It's either lying, incompetence or succumbing to influences that persuaded you to abandon that promise. Any way it doesn't look good for someone who wants to lead the country. Do we really need a leader who can't keep his word?

That’s exactly how I feel Glorianny. I take no pleasure in feeling disappointed by Starmer, I really wish he would rise to the challenge. I’m not looking back, no point. I feel at the moment as a country we’re on our way to hell in a handcart.

Whitewavemark2

The infighting is like a skirmish over a scrappy bit of land. One day the real enemy will appear and shoot the lot of them. Absolutely nothing will have been achieved, and the U.K. will be done for.

I'm afraid that's much as I feel too, WWM.

What we want is to get rid of the Tories, not all this bickering. There is plenty of time ( years) to sort the Labour Party out.

People, in extreme poverty, who will die of cold, who are waiting in pain for an operation will never forgive such infantile behaviour, and frankly neither would I.

Iam64

Thanks for your post Prentice. I still admire the Blair government, remember clearly my work in areas of high deprivation becoming less depressing as new community schools which were also libraries, family centres, had social workers, midwives, health visitors all available under one roof to support families.
Iraq was a disaster. I was one of the many marching - not in my name. It’s one of those occasions when being right achieves nothing. Much like being right that a Johnson government would benefit the rich but not the rest
I’m in a red wall area. Many people voted Tory to stop Corbyn. Same in the nearby area with a large Jewish community, they voted anything to keep Corbyn out of Downing Street
Let’s hope Starmer can keep the rolling ship steady

I'm always interested how will Starmer, a Remainer, a lawyer, part of the Westminster elite, with the media personality of a doormat manage to win back the red wall?

So if it isn't lying to promise to unite a party and then not only throw out people who disagree with you, but reward others who have worked against the party leader, and at the same time antagonise over 200,000 people so much they leave the party what is it? It's either lying, incompetence or succumbing to influences that persuaded you to abandon that promise. Any way it doesn't look good for someone who wants to lead the country. Do we really need a leader who can't keep his word?