Tavistock Gender Clinic to close - it failed vulnerable under-18s

You change so much as teenagers.

You certainly do if you go to the Tavistock gids Allsorts.

trapped in a body they now regret

You're right All-sorts.
We don't usually hear about being trapped in a trans body but it does happen.

When I was fifteen I wanted to travel the world, never marry or have children. Then I fell in love, married, had children and went to Cornwall on holiday. You change so much as teenagers.

It us worrying what will happen to these vulnerable trapped in a body they now regret. Betrayed by people that were in a position of trust. Surely it must be medical incompentacy.

Glorianny
Imagining that closing one clinic will stop children doing things themselves to change the body they are dissatisfied with is just ridiculous.
Now imagine doing nothing about a clinic that has done harm to so many children-even more ridiculous!
What sort of message does that send to children who are dissatisfied about their bodies? or do you advocate that a harmful clinic is better than none at all?
“Come along to the TC. We we may make your lives even worse than they are now and ruin your futures whilst we do it.”

Close a clinic that has caused harm and offer better help and treatment.

Thank you grannydarkhair.

A short film about puberty blockers.

youtu.be/oTf1gPZaBWg

One of the most difficult aspects of all this (thinking about Prof. Bell's comments) is the fear some therapists had that some young people had been rehearsed or coached by adults into what to say in order to speed up the process of accessing hormone disrupting therapy.

They choose to think of themselves as females and that's what they are.

Of course they are not female.
In connection with their physical health, they need to be aware that they are male.

In ordinary life, it doesn't matter if they give the impression of being girls or women and I would have no interest in 'exposing' anyone.
There would be no danger of 'exposing', tho, if everyone was honest about who is female or male.
Just as there is no longer a danger of gay people being 'exposed' (in the UK).

This is straying from the point, tho, which is that not all young people make the best choices for themselves and the Tavistock clinic has seriously failed those who came to them for help.

Chewbacca

^In that case, there are going to be some really disturbed people growing up.^

Yes there will, thanks to Tavistock gids and their rush to put children on puberty blockers. All those children put on life altering drugs, at a time when they didn't know what they were embarking on and trusted the Tavistock to care for them now and into their future. They were failed when the doctors, social workers, ancillary staff who raised their concerns that it was an unsafe environment for children, were ignored and over ridden.

I think, eventually, there will have to be a full scale review into this place.

We wouldn't sterilise children and make them unable to have children, so it's bizarre that drugs are being given to children, that may have the same outcome.?

Hopefully, these replacement clinics will be holistic, and be able to assess what the actual problem is.

Gagajo said My point is, a 20 year old woman can make whatever choices she likes. She is an adult

Like my daughter’s 20yo friend who was anorexic and starving herself to death. Funnily enough, the NHS stepped in and prevented that, despite her determined efforts. And thank god for that, because she’s now a happy, healthy young woman who is loving her life.

FarNorth

growstuff said I know two boys who successfully transitioned and are now leading happy lives.

Indeed, you do know two boys who have transitioned and are now boys presenting as girls.
That is not proof that all would be made equally happy by doing the same.

The long waiting list for appointments is terrible, however that doesn't mean the end result of waiting should be swift prescription of hormone medication, while contributing factors are ignored.

No-one who is pleased by the Tavistock's closure was actually hoping for its closure, I don't think.
We were hoping for its improvement.
It is the NHS which has decided that's the best way forward, based on the Cass report.

No FarNorth they are girls after being born as boys. One of them is a successful professional female singer. I looked on her Wiki page and there's no indication that she hasn't always been female, although I expect some malicious busybody could expose her. Why on earth does it matter to you how individuals live their lives? It's nobody else's business. They choose to think of themselves as females and that's what they are.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202207/medium-437370-screenshot-20220729-132939.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202207/medium-83144-screenshot-20220729-132959.png

The tweets are from Sinead Watson, a young woman from the Glasgow area who detransitioned a few years ago.

This is trailer for a forthcoming video - The Detransition Diaries.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=NVhUoiXGWx8

And on a lighter note.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/stonewall-withdraw-from-stonewall?r=k9z5j&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

We were hoping for its improvement.
It is the NHS which has decided that's the best way forward, based on the Cass report.

Exactly! Most of us just wanted them to widen the treatment plans, explore what was causing the dysphoria, not jump straight in with affirming transition as the 'cure'. As Kiera Bell and others have found out, it wasn't transition they needed but mindful counselling. Puberty blockers and cross sex hormones should be the last treatment not the first. The lack of data, record keeping and follow up on the effects of these treatments is abysmal.
The setting up of two new clinics is probably the best way forward since the Tavistock is now so tainted. Two clinics should see a reduction in waiting times for children to access the help they need.

growstuff said I know two boys who successfully transitioned and are now leading happy lives.

Indeed, you do know two boys who have transitioned and are now boys presenting as girls.
That is not proof that all would be made equally happy by doing the same.

The long waiting list for appointments is terrible, however that doesn't mean the end result of waiting should be swift prescription of hormone medication, while contributing factors are ignored.

No-one who is pleased by the Tavistock's closure was actually hoping for its closure, I don't think.
We were hoping for its improvement.
It is the NHS which has decided that's the best way forward, based on the Cass report.

Yes none of us are concerned about waiting lists for children, we dont talk about it every day in our working lives

One thing to note is the Tavistock hasn't closed today, it has to close by next Spring when the replacement clinics will be up and running. It is to be hoped they will widen their treatment plans of the children they will see until that time.

GagaJo

No idea why you're talking about 20 year old children. Because a 20 year old isn't a child.

Nobody is talking about 20 year old children. In order to be in menopause at 20 you'd need to have blocked a girl's puberty and put her on testosterone from around 16.

You were the one who introduced children waiting 4 years, saying they could be 20 by the time of the first appointment. A 20 year old would have no need of puberty blockers. They are prescribed for children as young as 12. Did you not know this? A 20 year old would also be attending an adult clinic, not the children and adolescent one at the Tavistock. I don't think anyone has suggested stopping adults doing what they want to their own bodies?
The Tavistock put children on puberty blockers and then most of them progressed onto cross sex hormones.

No idea why you're talking about 20 year old children. Because a 20 year old isn't a child.

See the quote of yours I used. If you didn't read it before, here it is again.

Rosie51 at 11.29 said: Put a girl into menopause at 20 and that's exactly what you're risking.

GagaJo

Don't start demanding Rosie51, because that will do (what I suspect is the intention anyway), of getting rid of those that have an alternate viewpoint. Let's just make it clear. No one can demand answers from anyone else in these forums.

*Still waiting for GagaJo to confirm*

I wasn't demanding. And I don't appreciate your accusation.

You brought a 20 year old into the discussion. They would have no need of puberty blockers I'm sure you'd agree. I asked who you think the Tavistock have been putting on puberty blockers (if not children and adolescents)? Maybe you are unwilling or unable to give your thoughts?

Chewbacca

^Should we prevent 20 year olds from going to war? Getting married? Having babies? Tattoos? Piercings?^

Please can someone explain what this has to do with the gid clinic at the Tavistock being shut down for being unsafe? Are 20 year olds vulnerable pre pubescents? What relevance does it have?

Not my reference. I was responding to Rosie51 discussing 20 year old '*girls*' at 11.29.

Rosie51

Well for a start a 20 year old won't be having any need of puberty blockers will she? Nobody is saying a 20 year old shouldn't have absolute body autonomy are they? We're talking about prepubescent children having their natural puberty blocked. Puberty blockers are only necessary for children and adolescents. Who have the Tavistock been prescribing them to?

Direct quote from you at 11.29 Rosie51.

'Do you not care that children's bodies are being permanently altered and potentially damaged with life limiting conditions in the future? Osteoporosis is no joke, and the earlier the menopause the greater the risk of developing it. Put a girl into menopause at 20 and that's exactly what you're risking.'

My point is, a 20 year old woman can make whatever choices she likes. She is an adult.

Don't start demanding Rosie51, because that will do (what I suspect is the intention anyway), of getting rid of those that have an alternate viewpoint. Let's just make it clear. No one can demand answers from anyone else in these forums.

Still waiting for GagaJo to confirm